Covid-19 Travel for exercise - Reasonable distance
- Thread starter Spunyarn
- Start date
Indeed....the new variant has supplanted the previous strain but I don't think the message is getting across, the situation isn't the same as it was last spring, it's worse.
Ah BBC Match of the Day account deleted the tweet.
Had photos of a crowd waiting and watching a football team bus arrive, complete with barricades and police presence.
Looked like less than 50% of the people were wearing masks.
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The new variant has indeed made the problem worse but the current rules are so vague and have so many holes in them that we are going to have to take individual responsibility for our own safety and the safety of others.
It is ludicrous that two young women were fined for having a secluded and distanced walk with a takeaway coffee.
It is similarly ludicrous that the Lake District still has a crazy number of camper vans and tourists on the roads.
What makes me think twice about the guidelines are that all those extra people on the Lake District roads could be "travelling for work".
The regulation which requires arrivals into the UK to have a recent negative Covid test weirdly doesn't apply to truck drivers, as if they are somehow immune.
The albeit very loose rules are constantly changing and open to interpretation by individuals, so the general public are just as entitled to make a mistake in their interpretation as police officers are. The difference is that the police can issue fines based on their (possibly) erroneous understanding of the ever-shifting non-binding rules.
It's a minefield. I sympathise with police officers trying hard to understand the spirit of the rules but I do find it interesting that they chose to fine two young women rather than two older men or perhaps a larger group. If they want to set an example it seems that this wasn't a good one.
Look after yourself and your loved ones. As far as anyone else is concerned, wear the mask, leave 2m and wash your hands regularly. If we all did that there wouldn't be a problem with two women 2m apart in the open air having a walk.
It is ludicrous that two young women were fined for having a secluded and distanced walk with a takeaway coffee.
It is similarly ludicrous that the Lake District still has a crazy number of camper vans and tourists on the roads.
What makes me think twice about the guidelines are that all those extra people on the Lake District roads could be "travelling for work".
The regulation which requires arrivals into the UK to have a recent negative Covid test weirdly doesn't apply to truck drivers, as if they are somehow immune.
The albeit very loose rules are constantly changing and open to interpretation by individuals, so the general public are just as entitled to make a mistake in their interpretation as police officers are. The difference is that the police can issue fines based on their (possibly) erroneous understanding of the ever-shifting non-binding rules.
It's a minefield. I sympathise with police officers trying hard to understand the spirit of the rules but I do find it interesting that they chose to fine two young women rather than two older men or perhaps a larger group. If they want to set an example it seems that this wasn't a good one.
Look after yourself and your loved ones. As far as anyone else is concerned, wear the mask, leave 2m and wash your hands regularly. If we all did that there wouldn't be a problem with two women 2m apart in the open air having a walk.
During the first lockdown we considered exercise as one hour from the front door. Occasionally we went over that hour but that was only later after we realised there wasn't an hour restriction. IIRC there was a news report explaining the rules that said up to an hours exercise per day. AIUI they dropped the hour quickly as it wasn't true.
That's when we started doing up to 2 hours from the door. We took food and drink with us as we have a 7 yo and I too need to eat regularly. We used to sit in a wide open field and have cheese, salami and oatcakes. Against the rules but nobody near us and no risk to anyone.
Later on the rules relaxed and we drove 5 to 10 miles to walk in other quiet areas. No further except once or twice to visit a bike shop and walk near it opportunistically.
Now we're walking locally again.
Future plans for exercise revolve around a mix of home gym and local walks. That's after a move to a more rural village and investing in a home gym. Local walks are as beautiful as you'd expect from an AONB. One step down from the lakes for natural beauty IMHO. Home gym involves a turbo, X trainer we're getting from my parents and a concept 2 rower. We also limited range of fixed weight dumbbells and kettlebells. I plan to get a bench and some form of rack for safety adding an adjustable barbell and dumbbell set. Turbo for long, steady sessions for base fitness and recovery. Rower for improving fitness, HIIT style sessions, etc. A more controlled fitness regime. That's the aims of it. Fortunately I'm too stubborn and fiscally tight to let the expenditure go to waste. Most of this lockdown gym kit spending spree will send up on eBay or Gumtree eventually. I am confident I won't let that happen, hate wasting my money.
That's when we started doing up to 2 hours from the door. We took food and drink with us as we have a 7 yo and I too need to eat regularly. We used to sit in a wide open field and have cheese, salami and oatcakes. Against the rules but nobody near us and no risk to anyone.
Later on the rules relaxed and we drove 5 to 10 miles to walk in other quiet areas. No further except once or twice to visit a bike shop and walk near it opportunistically.
Now we're walking locally again.
Future plans for exercise revolve around a mix of home gym and local walks. That's after a move to a more rural village and investing in a home gym. Local walks are as beautiful as you'd expect from an AONB. One step down from the lakes for natural beauty IMHO. Home gym involves a turbo, X trainer we're getting from my parents and a concept 2 rower. We also limited range of fixed weight dumbbells and kettlebells. I plan to get a bench and some form of rack for safety adding an adjustable barbell and dumbbell set. Turbo for long, steady sessions for base fitness and recovery. Rower for improving fitness, HIIT style sessions, etc. A more controlled fitness regime. That's the aims of it. Fortunately I'm too stubborn and fiscally tight to let the expenditure go to waste. Most of this lockdown gym kit spending spree will send up on eBay or Gumtree eventually. I am confident I won't let that happen, hate wasting my money.
Spot on.
That's 100% how I feel.
Come on, I'm going to buy you a pint.*
*Suitably socially distanced, and ensuring that we are walking to our destination and no more than the forum approved 100 yards or so away, and whatever other rules are in place.
Really, I read that they came from 30mins away from each other to meet up.
I think the cancellation was due to public pressure. I wonder just how the police who issued them feel now ?
Bet they won't bother trying hard to enforce anything.......
I know I'm not the only one who thinks that it's an own goal on society there
Looks like the arrest on the bench was a fraud set up by folks agin lockdown.
I think the cancellation was due to public pressure. I wonder just how the police who issued them feel now ?
Bet they won't bother trying hard to enforce anything.......
I know I'm not the only one who thinks that it's an own goal on society there
Looks like the arrest on the bench was a fraud set up by folks agin lockdown.
Bench arrest video 'stage-managed by anti-lockdown protesters'
Three people were arrested during an anti-lockdown protest, including the woman seen in the video.
www.bbc.co.uk
All I know is that I rarely see police actually walking around. They're only ever seen driving somewhere or occasionally at a supermarket having driven there to do a bit of shopping. Chances of a police officer stopping us is as likely as getting caught speeding on a motorway riding a unicorn! I probably know more police officers than I've seen in foot patrol. Plastic policemen apart, you do see them but they can't arrest you or really stop you.
Speaking as a basically law abiding citizen I doubt that matters as I know what I do can be argued either to the mythical officer or when contesting later.
Speaking as a basically law abiding citizen I doubt that matters as I know what I do can be argued either to the mythical officer or when contesting later.
No, they lived about 10mins/8km away. You can look on a map and see for yourself.
I'm sure the delicate little wallflowers will bounce back.
Sorry, but the Police are being overly heavy-handed on this.
Oh, there are certainly some cases where people rightly need to be reined in. Absolutely so.
There are a lot of other things going on which don't seem to be reported. I work for the NHS. We have been told to carry our NHS ID and an NHS letter headed note (yeah, like they can't be easily forged) because NHS staff have been stopped by the Police. Some have been refused access to public transport (I'm in two minds about that) or had to have a prolonged argument with the Police involving delay in them getting to their place of work whilst they try to prove who they are.
We've been told to take the officer's name and force number so a report can be put together on the delays the Police are causing and so complaints can be made.
I've not heard about that in the news.
So you'll understand if I'm not overly enamoured by our boys in blue (sorry, boys in paramilitary black).
Yes, there are many instances of people acting unwisely and the Police are absolutely correct for stopping them.
It's not even about 'confused messages'. The officers are living, breathing, thinking human beings, and if they don't know how to apply discretion and context to a situation then they shouldn't be in the uniform.
They are Police officers who have the power to stop people, arrest them, issue fines, etc. If they are allowed to do that without being publicly challenged on those powers then we go down a very dark route. And if their officers are going to have a sudden crisis of confidence due to being challenged on actions they've taken then they shouldn't be in the force. Everyone else with public resposibility is accountable and so are the Police. They failed on this occasion.
I live not too far from Foremark where they were fined, I understand the two women came from Ashby, now there are plenty of places between Melbourne and Ashby to go for a walk, they probably would have been safer staying in Liestershire and the Police in Derbyshire are a bit over-zealous. What I don't understand is how a hot drink classes as a picnic, evidently the policemen's ball is a stingy affair.
What does concern us at the moment is how far is reasonable to drive? My wife is heavily pregnant at the moment and drives about 2km to Poppy's wood to have a walk and relieve sciatica, if she were to try and walk there there are too many muddy slopes and too much of a slip risk at the moment.
It would be nice if the police issued out what criteria they are measuring reasonable against in terms of distance, even if they said look at the Lower Tier Local Authorities you can just go to the Covid map and see where you should be.
What does concern us at the moment is how far is reasonable to drive? My wife is heavily pregnant at the moment and drives about 2km to Poppy's wood to have a walk and relieve sciatica, if she were to try and walk there there are too many muddy slopes and too much of a slip risk at the moment.
It would be nice if the police issued out what criteria they are measuring reasonable against in terms of distance, even if they said look at the Lower Tier Local Authorities you can just go to the Covid map and see where you should be.
The problem with reiterating ad nauseam the handful of cases that make it into social media involving over zealous constables, is that one not only implies that it is a generality but it also gives ammo to those who have an axe to grind vis a vis the fuzz.
I don't know the details of the incidents mentioned but all those in authority are under considerable scrutiny at the moment & if the constabulary are out patrolling & 'stumble upon' an ambiguous situation & particularly if they are being watched, filmed or photographed .....I imagine the temptation to be seen to be doing something overrides the publicity of being seen to do nothing. If the coppers involved exceeded their authority then they will no doubt be reprimanded, albeit symbolically. End of story.
I don't know the details of the incidents mentioned but all those in authority are under considerable scrutiny at the moment & if the constabulary are out patrolling & 'stumble upon' an ambiguous situation & particularly if they are being watched, filmed or photographed .....I imagine the temptation to be seen to be doing something overrides the publicity of being seen to do nothing. If the coppers involved exceeded their authority then they will no doubt be reprimanded, albeit symbolically. End of story.
Reading this thread and other sources there does appear to be a lot of anger at people travelling from one area to another potentially bringing the virus over, and I wonder if this is reflected in the police officers actions i.e Jack and Gill from high risk London travelling to lower risk Herts for a coffee and a walk.
I imagine if you policed a small county with a small force and NHS capacity watching it be trampled over by visitors would be frustrating to say the least.
I live in London where the police are now driving ambulances to support the NHS so I imagine there won’t be too many fines being issued by them
I imagine if you policed a small county with a small force and NHS capacity watching it be trampled over by visitors would be frustrating to say the least.
I live in London where the police are now driving ambulances to support the NHS so I imagine there won’t be too many fines being issued by them
Those who think about taking the car to 'exercise' are obviously confusing having a nice day out with stretching your legs.
based on your logic i shouldn’t sit in the hospital canteen either then to eat between shifts??
I wonder whether hostility, resentment or concern regarding the police makes for something of a self fulfilling prophecy?
While we like to think our law says "innocent until proven guilty" many of our laws are "you committed an offence...for which you may have a valid defence, now prove it." The social conversations I have had with police indicate that they have to have the a default suspicious/questioning approach to many interactions. This isn't unique to them, its pretty standard for anything where you must investigate and find evidence. Normally, police see a lot more people under bad circumstances and they certainly get lied to a lot more than anyone else.
So now we are all worried to some degree about how we will be treated by police, or whether they will cause us problems if we are stopped. I bet that people presenting wary body language and getting quickly defensive sounds warning bells for police officers and makes them more suspicious and less friendly. Usually such signals from people mean they are hiding something or have a guilty conscience.
So people half expect the police to be difficult, and so it proves. Just a thought.
While we like to think our law says "innocent until proven guilty" many of our laws are "you committed an offence...for which you may have a valid defence, now prove it." The social conversations I have had with police indicate that they have to have the a default suspicious/questioning approach to many interactions. This isn't unique to them, its pretty standard for anything where you must investigate and find evidence. Normally, police see a lot more people under bad circumstances and they certainly get lied to a lot more than anyone else.
So now we are all worried to some degree about how we will be treated by police, or whether they will cause us problems if we are stopped. I bet that people presenting wary body language and getting quickly defensive sounds warning bells for police officers and makes them more suspicious and less friendly. Usually such signals from people mean they are hiding something or have a guilty conscience.
So people half expect the police to be difficult, and so it proves. Just a thought.
I don't think many people realise that a whole lot of hard work has gone into looking at the science behind many aspects of how sars-cov-2 is spread and how we might best mitigated against its spread. Loads of people are working flat out to make sense of every piece of new information, to put that into context and turn it into something that a layperson can understand. That information is contintuously updated and fed to government of all levels, who then have the unenviable job of deciding what limitations to put in place. Inevitably there will be compromises and when the public questions why this is allowed but not that, they often don't realise that there has been a lot of weighing up of risks, costs, likelihood of compliance etc behind those restrictions. And that we are often given more freedom than would be good for us, just to keep people on-side a bit more. Unfortunately, the people in power also often don't act on advice in time (for various reasons, I'm sure) even if the scientific community has been flagging likely problems for months. Having seen some of what goes on behind the scenes, I find it really sad and annoying that people are blame the scientists for being tardy, when they are not the ones dragging their feet.
I was going to post the BBC link about Bournemouth but Toddy beat me to it.
I live in Bournemouth/Poole area and even though there are a lot of people out and about, MOST are acting sensibly.
This is a statement from a BCP email/newsletter posted on 06/01/21
'We are carefully following the government’s stated advice which says leaving home for exercise is reasonable and is permitted once a day, in places such as parks, beaches, countryside accessible to the public, forests, public gardens, the grounds of a heritage site and playgrounds. Whilst we have excellent provision of these spaces in the BCP area, not everyone is fortunate enough to live within easy walking or cycling distance of them, and government advice therefore permits people to travel locally for exercise, including to access public open space.
Everyone must take personal responsibility for their own actions to combat the spread of COVID-19. Wherever we take our outdoor exercise, this means carefully observing social distancing and maintaining good hand hygiene. If places appear too busy, people should head elsewhere in their local area in order to help protect themselves and others.'
Community Safety
Households must avoid mixing. You cannot leave your home to meet socially with anyone you do not live with or are not in a support bubble with (if you are legally permitted to form one).
You may exercise outdoors with one other person, but you must maintain social distancing at all times.
Any breaches of the regulations such as households mixing inside or gatherings should be reported online wherever possible. You can also report online to Dorset Police.
All pretty enlightened & sensible information really.
I live in Bournemouth/Poole area and even though there are a lot of people out and about, MOST are acting sensibly.
This is a statement from a BCP email/newsletter posted on 06/01/21
'We are carefully following the government’s stated advice which says leaving home for exercise is reasonable and is permitted once a day, in places such as parks, beaches, countryside accessible to the public, forests, public gardens, the grounds of a heritage site and playgrounds. Whilst we have excellent provision of these spaces in the BCP area, not everyone is fortunate enough to live within easy walking or cycling distance of them, and government advice therefore permits people to travel locally for exercise, including to access public open space.
Everyone must take personal responsibility for their own actions to combat the spread of COVID-19. Wherever we take our outdoor exercise, this means carefully observing social distancing and maintaining good hand hygiene. If places appear too busy, people should head elsewhere in their local area in order to help protect themselves and others.'
Community Safety
Households must avoid mixing. You cannot leave your home to meet socially with anyone you do not live with or are not in a support bubble with (if you are legally permitted to form one).
You may exercise outdoors with one other person, but you must maintain social distancing at all times.
Any breaches of the regulations such as households mixing inside or gatherings should be reported online wherever possible. You can also report online to Dorset Police.
All pretty enlightened & sensible information really.
There doesn't appear to be a great deal of difference between pre-lockdown & lockdown.
I don't know any country specifics but that I think about sums it up for Europe. What gets me is that (here)even the scientists are presenting an almost incoherent set of information. Medical scientists are basically repeating that "that has not been studied" well that is not even an opinion. Then there seems to be government science that surprisingly tends to follow the policies enforced at the moment. Just a few weeks ago the head of local "National Institute for Health and Welfare of Finland" which in spite of it's name is totally working with sicknesses stated that maybe it was a mistake to follow WHO lead. Slightly late now.
One has to do a lot of data gathering if wanting to stay current, yes there are some sites that collect reports but without any analysis it takes fairly large chunks of time to keep up.
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