Copper and Silver - Long term water disinfection

[BerettaBoy]

Hi there

I was doing some research on water disinfection and found that Copper and Silver have been used in the past to keep water fresh on long journeys and to kill bacteria.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antimicrobial_properties_of_copper

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17708071

I know if you are on a planned expedition or camping weekend you may have other methods to purify water, but suppose you had to evacuate in an emergency to the wilderness or there was a sustained period without the use of conventional water purification methods, copper and silver would be very useful back ups.

Another benefit of copper and silver as a disinfectant is that it would remove the need to boil water to disinfect it, which saves energy in the collection of wood, conserves wood and enables wood to be used for heating etc.

 

[Toddy]

Upfront; copper in concentration is toxic. It's used for domestic central heating systems and some leaches out into the watercourses, the water engineers are aware of the issues it can cause, but we do need it, in tiny quantities.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper_toxicity

Silver used to be used in the pre-antibiotic days. Again there are issues with it, argyria can be localised or it can turn the entire skin blue/grey. Ingesting colloidal silver is not a good idea.

Yes, both copper and silver will 'sterilise' water, but so will alcohol, so will purifying tablets, and the modern drinking straws are very good indeed. In desperate need, strain, strain, boil.
After all, if you've managed to take copper and silver with you, you could just as well manage some other chemicals.

Just my tuppence ha'penny worth, and sorry to sound so negative, but I mind seeing grey ladies in the local town when I was little; and I still feel sorry for them.

cheers,
Toddy

 

[ReamviThantos]

Will read up on this, thank you for this post.

 

[redneck]

I read before that nomads often put a couple of copper coins in their water canteens during long trips across the desert, this apparently kept the water pure and drinkable and prevented bacterial growth.

 

[John Fenna]

I have at least one T shirt and one pair of socks that include copper in them - to stop microbes making them pong, and one pair of socks with silver in them for the same duty....

 

[Toddy]

Old fashioned brass jelly pans leach a little copper into the jam, a tiny wee miniscule percentage, and it helps stop the jam going mouldy.

The thing is though, copper is reactive, try putting some offcuts in vinegar, just the stuff you shake on your chips, it'll turn the liquid turquoise blue. That's toxic. It will kill, it's used to kill stuff in the garden, I use it as a mordant in natural dyeing.
It needs care. It's not something to be used without forethought, and it's not something I would recommend for long term use unless you have some way of measuring what dosage you're getting....and measuring just what is in your water in the first place. Soft, hard ? what's making it hard ?

Similarly silver, though it's side effects are more the build up of metals in the eyes and skin. Argyria is a horrible thing.

There are good reasons neither are commonly used methods of water purification.

As I said, just my two and half p's worth.

M

 

[TeeDee]

I'd be interested to know if anyone can explain to me the science of ( in little words...) why Silver has such properties? Just interested in the real science cause and effect , not any quasi faith based system.

 

[Teepee]

Copper? Used in drinking water supply? It'll never catch on.

Anyway. here's a link to a simple school experiment conducted using copper coins to sterilise water. https://www.usc.edu/CSSF/History/2010/Projects/J1126.pdf


@Teedee; I understand the silver particles interupt the oxygen exchange process and effectively suffocate the little nasties.

 

[Mick721]

Silver ion based material is used in a lot of sports/miltary clothing and some deodorants to prevent bacterial growth and therefore unpleasant smells. I'd be interested to find out why (if) it works.

 

[TeeDee]

@Teedee; I understand the silver particles interupt the oxygen exchange process and effectively suffocate the little nasties.

Ahh , cheers.

 

[Corso]

I'd avoid copper but silver is being used more and more in the medical world

 

[Blaidd]

I have silver in my underpants. What? I do too! Sainsburys!

The new "water filter book" announced recently has silver in it.
http://www.wired.com/2014/05/smart-solution-a-book-whose-pages-filter-dirty-water

 

[Jared]

Katadyn Forte tabs have silver in them, as well as chlorine.

The silver is to allow storage of the water for upto 6 months.

 

[VaughnT]

Did y'all know that this is the foundation of why folks throw coins in to fountains for good luck?

Way back in the day, folks noticed that wells that had a few silver coins in them didn't putrefy nearly as quickly as wells without the silver. Of course, they didn't know the chemical reaction going on and just assumed that it was lucky for them. So, folks started throwing a coin here and a coin there.... for good luck.

 

[Blaidd]

Not heard that before, thanks! I love hearing about old lore. I'd heard it was descended from the act of offering a metal artifact at a river crossing or spring. Room for all explanations in this world.

 

[Toddy]

So how come we hammer coins into trees for good luck too ? The copper kills the tree.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=co....com%2F2008%2F11%2F27%2Fwish-trees%2F;800;600

M

 

[VaughnT]

Toddy, that's a new one on me. Must be a localized custom as I've never heard it being done on this side of the pond.

I would hypothesize that the amount of copper coinage being sunk into the timber to kill it must be relative to its size. In the States, indians used to regularly girdle trees so they would die and be easier to cut down in the future when they needed seasoned wood.

That being the case, maybe it was "lucky" to stick coins in trees because the natives noticed that the gods blessed them with seasoned, dry timber when they did it? Cutting green wood is easier than a dried log, but it also requires immediate processing. Leaving a dead tree standing means you have a source of dried timber to use next time your in the area.... Maybe?

 

[david1]

I eat apple seeds too, and they contain arsenic... the trees are trying to fight back.

 

[Toddy]

No, no....we hammer coins into a tree to make a wish. To take away disease, to take away warts, to hope for a safe journey (more in the past that one) but the copper kills the trees, and folks still hammer coins into the dead trees.
Ancient British thing apparantly, from Wales to Northern England to Scotland, it's still done.

Coins in wells and springs and rivers were (are ) given as an offering to the water gods. It's astonishing sometimes the metalworked stuff that comes up out of old water sites. Ritual deposition in water is at least 3,500 years old in this country. Votive deposits in wells and springs is as old, and coins could simply be a development of those practices.
That copper in the well might keep it fresh is a bonus, but by their very nature wells are constantly in flux with the water table and the rainwater flushes.
I live in an area where there are eleven capped wells within a square half mile. They were all good water and they were kept cleared by those whose gardens they were in. My Uncle was one of them, my husband minds drinking from the wells at his Grandparents house and again, it was good water. An awful lot tastier than the stuff that comes out of the taps now, full of chlorine. He's just said that the well that had a sandstone cap and a set of sandstone stairs down to it, and there was a toad lived in it they didn't throw coins into it, the water from that one was used to water the gardens.

cheers,
Toddy

 

[mrcharly]

Do either copper or silver have any effect on viruses or parasites such as liver fluke?