Controversial way to signal.

[santaman2000]

Excuse me? Clearly you didn't understand my post. Perhaps you should read it again. I'm saying that it is improbable that you should find yourself in a situation where you could signal via laser but not by phone/radio; meaning if you don't have a working phone or radio for whatever reason your laser won't be much good either (relative to conventional alternatives such as heliograph or whistle - which are waterproof and don't rely on battery)

This implies that I always have a phone or radio. Currently not much comes before my personal safety thank you!

In fact I find it absurd that you seem to believe you could find yourself in a situation with a working laser but not a working phone... What could you possibly be doing?!

A "working phone" doesn't equal a "useful phone." Loads of places out of range of a cell tower. Particularly as not all carriers share the same towers. Mine (Verizon) has signal where Barbara's doesn't Not sure who her carrier is, but it's not Verizon) and hers has signal where mine doesn't. That's only useful if we're always together so one of us has signal; even then, there are still loads of areas where we both get NO signal. And my radio is only useful f somebody's monitoring the right frequency (also with dead spots in the canyons)

 

[cbr6fs]

A "working phone" doesn't equal a "useful phone." Loads of places out of range of a cell tower. Particularly as not all carriers share the same towers. Mine (Verizon) has signal where Barbara's doesn't Not sure who her carrier is, but it's not Verizon) and hers has signal where mine doesn't. That's only useful if we're always together so one of us has signal; even then, there are still loads of areas where we both get NO signal. And my radio is only useful f somebody's monitoring the right frequency (also with dead spots in the canyons)

As said i think relying on any one thing to get you out of trouble is risky, i do think he/she made a good point with "you don't have to be in the back of beyond to get in trouble!" though.

The other thing is, here in Europe a call/text to a emergency number is picked up by ANY cell tower, it doesn't matter if you are subscribed with that carrier or not.

In the UK there are not many places where if you blew a whistle someone wouldn't here it over say a 24 hour period.

There are some parts of Scotland and fewer parts of Wales that are remote enough they don't get many visitors, but even in foul weather there is a good chance someone will walk a path within whistle range of you in the Lake district, Peak district etc.

Shining a laser at passing aircraft would be absolutely pointless, not only would they not see the source they wouldn't have any idea that you were signalling for a emergency.
Some lasers that operate on the visible frequency will give a beam in certain conditions, it's a bit hit and miss though, plus they'd only be visible at a distance during the night, a time where there are dramatically fewer people out in the hills.

If you're out alone then leave a itinerary with someone you trust, put down your route and expected return time.
Carry enough clothing so you can survive a night, a lightweight emergency bivvy bag can be useful as well.
I'd also recommend carrying a torch and decent whistle, even IF you have a mobile phone with you and it has a signal you'll still need to guide the rescue folks to you, a whistle is great for rough location (sound bounces off cliffs, echo's etc), a torch will guide them to you when they get closer.

 

[Qwerty]

The only "flares" I know of are pyrotechnic. And they're required on international flights. Or are you talking about some other type of flare?

Pyrotechnics are old technology when it comes to rescue situations, they've been around for decades at this stage. With the advancement of technology combined with the advantage of not having to carry around incredibly hot and potentially lethal emergency equipment, Laser flares are a welcome addition to the armoury. Well worth getting up to speed with their usefulness if you don't know about them

[video=youtube_share;t47hFJBsMZA]http://youtu.be/t47hFJBsMZA[/video]

On the subject of laser pointers, I'm very surprised to see the UK has no law around the sale of powerful (>1mW) laser lights, they are illegal here in Ireland due to the acute stupidity of people who get a kick out of pointing them at commercial, police and SAR aircraft.

 

[bushwacker bob]

Don't go anywhere you cant use a phone. If you need to take signalling equipment you are already planning to put yourself in jeopardy and more importantly the poor sods from the rescue services. If you need to take a survival kit you are lacking in genuine bushcraft skills so practice until you don't need the kit BEFORE leaving home.
A UK survival kit need only consist of a £20 note, bottle of water, a pocket knife and cigarette lighter.

 

[santaman2000]

Pyrotechnics are old technology when it comes to rescue situations, they've been around for decades at this stage. With the advancement of technology combined with the advantage of not having to carry around incredibly hot and potentially lethal emergency equipment, Laser flares are a welcome addition to the armoury. Well worth getting up to speed with their usefulness if you don't know about them

[video=youtube_share;t47hFJBsMZA]http://youtu.be/t47hFJBsMZA[/video]

On the subject of laser pointers, I'm very surprised to see the UK has no law around the sale of powerful (>1mW) laser lights, they are illegal here in Ireland due to the acute stupidity of people who get a kick out of pointing them at commercial, police and SAR aircraft.

So they're hand held rather than a fired from the standard 12 gauge flare gun? Three nautical miles doesn't sound all that great TBH. Also, what's the advantage over an ordinary strobe light?

 

[santaman2000]

Don't go anywhere you cant use a phone....... .

You don't have any real outdoors do you? Or at least you never got there apparently. You lose phone signal as close as a mile offshore; the good fishing is from 5 to 20 miles offshore (but you should have a reliable VHF radio onboard) 30 miles into the mountains on horseback and you'll have long since lost any signal.

 

[santaman2000]

.... If you need to take a survival kit you are lacking .....

They're required by law on some trips.

 

[cbr6fs]

Don't go anywhere you cant use a phone. If you need to take signalling equipment you are already planning to put yourself in jeopardy and more importantly the poor sods from the rescue services. If you need to take a survival kit you are lacking in genuine bushcraft skills so practice until you don't need the kit BEFORE leaving home.
A UK survival kit need only consist of a £20 note, bottle of water, a pocket knife and cigarette lighter.

Thanks BB you cheered me up no end :You_Rock_

 

[bushwacker bob]

They're required by law on some trips.

Not in the impenetrable wilderness of the UK. The farthest you can get from a metaled road is 11 miles. If your going to remote places you take the appropriate kit for the conditions unless your stupidity allows you to dress inappropriately with the confidence that you could survive for weeks on the contents of a baccy tin full of inadequate equipment. If the OP needs a survival kit he shouldn't be allowed to go far enough away from civilisation to lose his phone signal.

 

[BigMonster]

Don't go anywhere you cant use a phone. If you need to take signalling equipment you are already planning to put yourself in jeopardy and more importantly the poor sods from the rescue services. If you need to take a survival kit you are lacking in genuine bushcraft skills so practice until you don't need the kit BEFORE leaving home.
A UK survival kit need only consist of a £20 note, bottle of water, a pocket knife and cigarette lighter.

A week ago I went to the Lake District with my friends for an overnight in the mountains. I was unlucky enough to fall of the wall during a really light scramble (I consider myself a fair and regular rock climber) and bash my back really bad.
Pissing blood for two days and asking my girlfriend to help me take my trousers off.... Of course it happened 6pm in the middle of nowhere. Only thanks to codeine in my 1st aid kit and a roll of duck tape combined with folded emergency bag (survival kit) to improvise a corset I was able to make my way back to the car the next day (12km took me 6 hours).

Going anywhere especially outdoors without preperation and planning for emergencies is foolish. I'd rather plan and be ready for "jeopardy" situations than go in unprepared overestimating my skills. You never know what can happened, any signs of bad internal bleeding and/or bad weather next day and I would have to use a mountain rescue (somehow signalling them through the night)
Don't mean to bash you but your statement is really silly.
According to you a person should either stay at home or magically become self sufficient rambo/McGyver hybrid who does not need emergency equipement. And ironically it's the rescue services who insist on taking emergency items...

 

[cbr6fs]

A week ago I went to the Lake District with my friends for an overnight in the mountains. I was unlucky enough to fall of the wall during a really light scramble (I consider myself a fair and regular rock climber) and bash my back really bad.
Pissing blood for two days and asking my girlfriend to help me take my trousers off.... Of course it happened 6pm in the middle of nowhere. Only thanks to codeine in my 1st aid kit and a roll of duck tape combined with folded emergency bag (survival kit) to improvise a corset I was able to make my way back to the car the next day (12km took me 6 hours).

Going anywhere especially outdoors without preperation and planning for emergencies is foolish. I'd rather plan and be ready for "jeopardy" situations than go in unprepared overestimating my skills. You never know what can happened, any signs of bad internal bleeding and/or bad weather next day and I would have to use a mountain rescue (somehow signalling them through the night)
Don't mean to bash you but your statement is really silly.
According to you a person should either stay at home or magically become self sufficient rambo/McGyver hybrid who does not need emergency equipement. And ironically it's the rescue services who insist on taking emergency items...

I read his post as he was joking, as i can't believe that anyone would seriously believe that.

 

[BigMonster]

I read his post as he was joking, as i can't believe that anyone would seriously believe that.

You never know man... It's internet.

 

[bushwacker bob]

A survival kit is NOT emergency equipment and in an area where you may be endangered the CORRECT equipment should be carried.
A survival kit does not contain codine, that should be in a FIRST AID KIT. (Are you begining to notice the difference yet?)
A Knife of any use is not small enough to fit in a baccy tin (Pocket knife fits in pocket)
A fire in an emergency needs to be lit quickly(Lighter also in pocket) Have you tried using a standard ferro rod in the early stages of hypothermia? You shake so violently your hands cant even touch each other.
Fishing kit would be OK if you had your license and permission of the landowner but if you did you would carry decent fishing kit wouldn't you?
And a laser would be good for attracting rescue or you could carry a lighter and use the internationally acknowledged rescue fire triangle.
What else is in your 'kit?

 

[BigMonster]

So he was serious...

 

[cbr6fs]

A survival kit is NOT emergency equipment and in an area where you may be endangered the CORRECT equipment should be carried.
A survival kit does not contain codine, that should be in a FIRST AID KIT. (Are you begining to notice the difference yet?)
A Knife of any use is not small enough to fit in a baccy tin (Pocket knife fits in pocket)
A fire in an emergency needs to be lit quickly(Lighter also in pocket) Have you tried using a standard ferro rod in the early stages of hypothermia? You shake so violently your hands cant even touch each other.
Fishing kit would be OK if you had your license and permission of the landowner but if you did you would carry decent fishing kit wouldn't you?
And a laser would be good for attracting rescue or you could carry a lighter and use the internationally acknowledged rescue fire triangle.
What else is in your 'kit?

Although i do agree a "survival kit" is absolutely pointless in the UK i do think it's sensible packing a few things in case of emergency.

I do not agree that

If you need to take signalling equipment you are already planning to put yourself in jeopardy and more importantly the poor sods from the rescue services.

A whistle and a torch are both signalling devices, they take up very little space, are very light and can be bought very cheap.
I don't see how anyone carrying a mobile phone, torch and whistle is "planning to put yourself in jeopardy"

If you need to take a survival kit you are lacking in genuine bushcraft skills so practice until you don't need the kit BEFORE leaving home.
A UK survival kit need only consist of a £20 note, bottle of water, a pocket knife and cigarette lighter.

Again i agree with you 100% on the "survival kit" a fishing kit would be absolutely useless if your stranded half way up Snowdon.
In this case though something like a emergency bivvy bag could be the difference between surviving a night out or not, although i'd class that as my emergency kit it could be labelled "survival" kit.

 

[BigMonster]

We are playing semantics here.
Survivla kit or emergency kit contains whatever you think you might need when things go wrong. Bottom line is: beeing ready for unpredictable situations is a good thing.

Hope for the best, plan for the worst.
Be prepared.
PPPPP...

PS: "Only thanks to codeine in my 1st aid kit... "

 

[santaman2000]

Not in the impenetrable wilderness of the UK. The farthest you can get from a metaled road is 11 miles. If your going to remote places you take the appropriate kit for the conditions unless your stupidity allows you to dress inappropriately with the confidence that you could survive for weeks on the contents of a baccy tin full of inadequate equipment. If the OP needs a survival kit he shouldn't be allowed to go far enough away from civilisation to lose his phone signal.

Sounds like a really, really boring life. Don't be too sad though; maybe one day you'll actually get to go to the real outdoors.

 

[santaman2000]

A survival kit is NOT emergency equipment and in an area where you may be endangered the CORRECT equipment should be carried.....

.....Fishing kit would be OK if you had your license and permission of the landowner but if you did you would carry decent fishing kit wouldn't you?....

And a laser would be good for attracting rescue or you could carry a lighter and use the internationally acknowledged rescue fire triangle.....

What else is in your 'kit?

-Yep, the CORRECT equipment should be carried.

-A lighter IS the proper equipment in most survival kits. A REAL lighter, not a cheesy Bic.

-If I'm in a real survival situation I'll be damned if I care about the landowner's permission (if indeed there is anybody who owns real wilderness) Be real; getting arrested = being rescued.

-The international rescue signal is actually a PRB broadcasting on 121.5MHz for civilian use (although this is changing to 406.1 MHz) and 243MHz for NATO. Three fires has long been obsolete.

 

[bushwacker bob]

Sounds like a really, really boring life. Don't be too sad though; maybe one day you'll actually get to go to the real outdoors.

Its not boring, just the reality of life in the UK, hence the title of the forum and the theoretical object of our discussions. I work in English woodlands most days of the week so perhaps I am more in touch with the situation than say 'someone in Florida'

 

[santaman2000]

Its not boring, just the reality of life in the UK, hence the title of the forum and the theoretical object of our discussions. I work in English woodlands most days of the week so perhaps I am more in touch with the situation than say 'someone in Florida'

And I lived in the UK for 4 years; and in the Western deserts and mountains for 5 years; and in the Texas Hill Country for 3 years; and I spent time in the Italian Alps as well as the Saudi desert, and the Panama jungle. Now I live in the South along the Gulf of Mexico. Hence my comment that your life confined to a single environment (and one that you apparently find sedately civilized) sounds boring.