Compass

The questionable QC with Silva is for the ones in the US; They're no longer real Silvas but the name (here) is now owned by another company that has them made in China. As far as I know, the ones sold in Europe and the UK are still Swedish made real Silvas.

Ironically, the Brunton compasses sold here are now made by Silva in Sweden.

i'm currently in japan (and soon off to korea) so i'll have to go for a locally-available product i guess.... wish i could get hold of my NVA compass but that's left in europe (if my ""dear"" relatives haved'nt thrown it out by now....) :puppy_dog ---does not work in OZ (as it's only adjusted for northern hemisphere) but it's BOMBPROOF! +it was a REAL bargain from a flea market (brandnew - the owner did not know what he was selling....)
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
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i'm currently in japan (and soon off to korea) so i'll have to go for a locally-available product i guess.... wish i could get hold of my NVA compass but that's left in europe (if my ""dear"" relatives haved'nt thrown it out by now....) :puppy_dog ---does not work in OZ (as it's only adjusted for northern hemisphere) .....

I'm still unsure why there's a difference? The Earth's magnetic flux lines run from the south pole to the north pole (magnetic poles) The compas needle aligns with those flux lines. Said flux lines are the same regardless of which side of the equator you're on. When an airplane Lands at McMurdo Station, it has the same magnetic compass as when it took off from an Air National Guard base in New York.
 
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Joonsy

Native
Jul 24, 2008
1,483
3
UK
They did a TV programme a few years back on how the Ordnance survey was done some 200+ years ago. Fascinating stuff using lanterns and steel tapes...

saw a programme like that with nick crane, the amazing thing is how accurate they were even then. That accuracy was owed to those Trig Points built for mapping and the fellows who built them, no helicopters back then everything was carried up by horse or by man.
 
I'm still unsure why there's a difference? The Earth's magnetic flux lines run from the south pole to the north pole (magnetic poles) The compas needle aligns with those flux lines. Said flux lines are the same regardless of which side of the equator you're on. When an airplane Lands at McMurdo Station, it has the same magnetic compass as when it took off from an Air National Guard base in New York.

there is a magnetic phenomenon( sorry, but the english name has slipped my memory right now...) which means if you use a compass in the wrong zone (if i understand correctly there are five) of the earth the needle gets stuck- which happened with my NVA compass in OZ. after returning on the northern hemisphere it worked fine again (which is why i got the recta DP65 afterwards to avoid future problems!)... . it's only important if you travel a lot between different places; if you use the compass only in your local neck of the woods it does not matter.
 

Bluffer

Nomad
Apr 12, 2013
464
1
North Yorkshire
I have a globally balanced compass for that reason.

For UK and Eur I use a Silva sighting compass (the one with a mirror in the lid, it is still a baseplate compass)
 

Joonsy

Native
Jul 24, 2008
1,483
3
UK
there is a magnetic phenomenon( sorry, but the english name has slipped my memory right now...) which means if you use a compass in the wrong zone (if i understand correctly there are five) of the earth the needle gets stuck- which happened with my NVA compass in OZ. after returning on the northern hemisphere it worked fine again (which is why i got the recta DP65 afterwards to avoid future problems!)... . it's only important if you travel a lot between different places; if you use the compass only in your local neck of the woods it does not matter.

yes if you use the compass in the wrong zone the north end of the compass needle can be pulled out of level, it tries to point downwards vertically instead of maintaining a horizontal level and catches on the baseplate, i once bought a silva 4 from a show and excactly this happened, it kept sticking on the baseplate so bearing was unrelaiable, i tried to adjust by rolling baseplate around to let needle rotate free but in the end threw it away, it was too frustrating and unreliable to use.
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
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yes if you use the compass in the wrong zone the north end of the compass needle can be pulled out of level, it tries to point downwards vertically instead of maintaining a horizontal level and catches on the baseplate.....

I can see this happening if very near the North magnetic pole; and the other end of the needle doing that if very near the south magnetic pole.
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
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there is a magnetic phenomenon( sorry, but the english name has slipped my memory right now...) which means if you use a compass in the wrong zone (if i understand correctly there are five) of the earth the needle gets stuck- which happened with my NVA compass in OZ. after returning on the northern hemisphere it worked fine again (which is why i got the recta DP65 afterwards to avoid future problems!)... . it's only important if you travel a lot between different places; if you use the compass only in your local neck of the woods it does not matter.

I still don't understand it. I see what you're saying, but unfortunately, it's still only saying that "yes there's a difference." Any idea what the cause is? And why doesn't it affect aircraft compasses (the magnetic compass of course, not the gyro or electronic ones) which fly round the world?
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
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Thanks for the link. It does help. Their answer is still vaguer than I'd like though; it still only says, "there are differences" without explaining why (other than a reference to vertical magntic pull) But it does explain why aircraft compasses are unaffected, they don't use needles; rather a free floating ball which would be unaffected by drag.

I can understand why a vertical pull would cause drag, but such pull would logically increase with proximatey to either pole. And TBH, a magnetic compass would be useless very near either pole anyway; from the magnetic North Pole, every direction is magnetic south, and from the magnetic South pole every direction is magnetic north.
 
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mousey

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Jun 15, 2010
2,210
254
43
NE Scotland
I was kinda thinking the same thing with marine compasses. I'd never heard of different compass zones until this thread.
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
16,909
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Magnetic marine compasses and magnetic aviation compasses are much the same.

Nor is there any mention of different compasses/compass zones in the Army Land navigation Training Manual. And they do indeed operate globally.
 
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I was kinda thinking the same thing with marine compasses. I'd never heard of different compass zones until this thread.


neither did some of my instructors/squadron leaders in the military or most of the staff in various outdoor shops.... .
i guess marine and aircraft compasses are constructed in a way which compensates/avoids this problem- but they're usually bigger then the ones used for backpacking....
 

mousey

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Jun 15, 2010
2,210
254
43
NE Scotland
Yea I guess santaman is right about it being a sphere floating free, would avoid the zone problems? I remember seeing spherical compasses really small - i think in crackers so cheap an nasty, wouldn't use for navigation - but I'd image it would be fairly easy to manufacture a well made ping-pong ball sized spherical compass. [take a couple of bats with you and you have a campsite game too - multi purpose tool - brilliant:)]
 
Nov 29, 2004
7,808
26
Scotland
Folks looking through this thread may find this short article on 'Global Compass Zones' interesting.

FYI I traveled in South Africa and Namibia with the Silva 54 (mentioned earlier in this thread), it worked, it didn't stick, possibly because of the high quality bearing used. There is a Southern Hemisphere version available however I didn't realise that my Northern Hemisphere version was in a shirt pocket when I flew out there.
 

mrcharly

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Jan 25, 2011
3,257
46
North Yorkshire, UK
I'm still unsure why there's a difference? The Earth's magnetic flux lines run from the south pole to the north pole (magnetic poles) The compas needle aligns with those flux lines. Said flux lines are the same regardless of which side of the equator you're on. When an airplane Lands at McMurdo Station, it has the same magnetic compass as when it took off from an Air National Guard base in New York.

The flux lines aren't tangential to the earth's surface, they are at an angle. The angle varies according to hemisphere and latitude.

So silva-type compasses have a weighted needle so that the needle will be 'flat' in a particular region. Go to a different hemisphere and the needle will be at a considerable angle, scraping on the sides of the needle capsule.

Some compass designs (eg classic 'glass ball' boat compasses) allow the needle/card to move freely so aren't affected.

Edit
Doh, should have read the thread and I've have seen that people have answered the question already!
 

Jonbodthethird

Settler
Sep 5, 2013
548
0
Kettering/Stilton
Basically if your Locating buried treasure your screwed but if you want to get out of a sticky situation then a degree compass will work more than good enough! Which is what you posted about I believe?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
The questionable QC with Silva is for the ones in the US; They're no longer real Silvas but the name (here) is now owned by another company that has them made in China. As far as I know, the ones sold in Europe and the UK are still Swedish made real Silvas.

sorry if i get back on this.... : if the silvas sold in UK and europe are o.k and the ones sold in the US are ****- what about silvas sold in other parts of the world(like korea, japan and OZ)?!
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
16,909
1,120
68
Florida
sorry if i get back on this.... : if the silvas sold in UK and europe are o.k and the ones sold in the US are ****- what about silvas sold in other parts of the world(like korea, japan and OZ)?!

Only the ones sold in the US and Canada (what used to be Silva North America) are affected. It was due to a trademark fight a while back. Here's the relevent bit from Wiki:

North American Trademar Dispute

After the founding of Silva USA in 1946 and Silva Ltd. in Canada two years later, both affiliates were later acquired by Johnson Wax Associates, later Johnson Camping, Inc., and by 1985, Johnson Worldwide Associates (JWA). From 1980, JWA had imported Swedish-made compasses manufactured by Silva Production AB for sale in North America.In 1996, a decision by Silva Production AB to end sole distribution of its Swedish-made Silva-brand compasses by Silva USA led to a court battle the following year between JWA and Silva Production AB (Silva Sweden AB).[SUP][9][/SUP]
In 1998, JWA and Silva Production AB of Sweden reached a settlement whereby JWA retained the exclusive right to sell compasses under its Silva trademark in North America, made by unnamed manufacturers.[SUP][10][/SUP] JWA also retained the North American rights to some product names such as Ranger, Polaris, 1, 2, 3 and others commonly used and recognized in the U.S. and Canadian markets and made popular during the time Silva Production AB was manufacturing Swedish-made Silva compasses for JWA in North America.[SUP][11][/SUP] JWA was eventually renamed Johnson Outdoors, Inc.
For its part, Silva Production AB/Silva Group retained the right to manufacture and sell compasses, GPS tools, and other navigational products under its Silva trademark outside the United States and Canada, as well as market its Swedish-made compasses and GPS tools in North America under the Brunton, Elite, and Nexus brands. The Swedish firm also retained the right to state on Nexus packaging and in the Nexus catalog that Nexus compasses were made by Silva Production AB, but did not retain the right to advertise this fact.[SUP][11][/SUP]
In 2009 Fiskars sold Brunton Inc. to Fenix Outdoor AB of Sweden, and in consequence, Silva Production AB stopped exporting Silva of Sweden compasses to North America under the Brunton and Nexus brands, and halted further imports of Brunton products to markets outside North America under the Silva brand. Currently, Silva of Sweden AB no longer distributes any of its compass products to the USA or Canadian markets.
 
Only the ones sold in the US and Canada (what used to be Silva North America) are affected. It was due to a trademark fight a while back. Here's the relevent bit from Wiki:

North American Trademar Dispute

After the founding of Silva USA in 1946 and Silva Ltd. in Canada two years later, both affiliates were later acquired by Johnson Wax Associates, later Johnson Camping, Inc., and by 1985, Johnson Worldwide Associates (JWA). From 1980, JWA had imported Swedish-made compasses manufactured by Silva Production AB for sale in North America.In 1996, a decision by Silva Production AB to end sole distribution of its Swedish-made Silva-brand compasses by Silva USA led to a court battle the following year between JWA and Silva Production AB (Silva Sweden AB).[SUP][9][/SUP]
In 1998, JWA and Silva Production AB of Sweden reached a settlement whereby JWA retained the exclusive right to sell compasses under its Silva trademark in North America, made by unnamed manufacturers.[SUP][10][/SUP] JWA also retained the North American rights to some product names such as Ranger, Polaris, 1, 2, 3 and others commonly used and recognized in the U.S. and Canadian markets and made popular during the time Silva Production AB was manufacturing Swedish-made Silva compasses for JWA in North America.[SUP][11][/SUP] JWA was eventually renamed Johnson Outdoors, Inc.
For its part, Silva Production AB/Silva Group retained the right to manufacture and sell compasses, GPS tools, and other navigational products under its Silva trademark outside the United States and Canada, as well as market its Swedish-made compasses and GPS tools in North America under the Brunton, Elite, and Nexus brands. The Swedish firm also retained the right to state on Nexus packaging and in the Nexus catalog that Nexus compasses were made by Silva Production AB, but did not retain the right to advertise this fact.[SUP][11][/SUP]
In 2009 Fiskars sold Brunton Inc. to Fenix Outdoor AB of Sweden, and in consequence, Silva Production AB stopped exporting Silva of Sweden compasses to North America under the Brunton and Nexus brands, and halted further imports of Brunton products to markets outside North America under the Silva brand. Currently, Silva of Sweden AB no longer distributes any of its compass products to the USA or Canadian markets.

THANKS for your infos! i just had a quick look at silvas website- they do'nt tell me the dimensions of their compasses but there several models which seem to fit my requirements as a back-up... (a lot of my outings involve ""bushbashing"" and NZ, korea and japan are rather mountainous- so a slide down a hill followed by a hard landing is always possible---. so i want a back-up compass in case i fall on my gear and manage to break it...)
 

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