Catapult Ammo

[mrostov]

Every time I hear the word 'catapult' I think of a castle under siege or Roman troops flinging flammable jars of pitch. Here we just call them slingshots. The modern ones using latex tubing we often refer to as 'wrist rockets' which was a marketing term used for them in the USA back in the 1970's.

Steel works well because of the speed. What also works very well are spherical glass 'marbles'.

While it take a lot more skill to use, something I've always worn since I was a kid (even in the military when I could get away with it) and few noticed, was a bushcrafty looking wristband that when I unwound it off of my wrist became an ancient style sling (David and Goliath style). You can throw some impressive projectiles with one of those. If you learn to use one well, they store out of the way and come in surprisingly handy. Very, very few people have even the faintest clue what it is when it's wrapped around your wrist. It can also stow away into a pocket.

 

[Samon]

I cast my own lead shot. I think they are 10-13mm? Big, heavy and hit like a truck. I've used loads of different sized steel balls for ammo before but they really don't carry the weight to humanely kill without a direct shot to the head or in the eye... With lead you can blast small animals in the chest and get a nice kill. The shock alone in the chest from a good heavy lead shot is not only easier but more practical as twitchy animals like squirrels nod alot lol.

I have bags of steel shot but I am going to use them when practicing as I don't feel I can land clean head shots needed to use them humanely. And I always use theraband gold bands, doubled up and 20mm wide. Bloody hard to get a good ammount of power with short fat arms but with mega bands and good shot you can really do some dents.

Alas, do not use marbles. They aren't heavy enough unless you blast the animal in the eye or properly in the soft part of the head.

 

[Janne]

http://www.motherearthnews.com/-/me...0&hash=B2A557EBD21B353CA0F587EBE7DCD894D93F31

 

[Toddy]

Err, from my school days...

Cider Apple sweets, they have half decent punch, if they hit something concrete the evidence disintegrates and if you have no targets you still have sweets.

Ahem.

Mint imperials are a good alternative as well

I think aniseed balls are good too though; it really confuses every dog that passes by Right enough mint imperials give a burst of white when they hit and are good for target practice.
I haven't had cider apples in years.

The Romans, and others who used the sling as a weapon used wee round stones as well as lead for their 'bullets'. There seems to be an almost standard weight of around an ounce that was preferred.
A sling can be worn almost as a belt, very discreet indeed. I wondered why the plethora of catapults had appeared instead

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2017/05/ancient-slingshot-lethal-44-magnum-scotland/

 

[Janne]

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

[Adze]

Catapult 'ballistics' can't really be compared to firearms for a simple reason: rubber bands have a fixed maximum speed of contraction whereas firearms are far superior in terms of how fast it will make a projectile travel based on quantity of propellant and the length of the barrel it's fired from. If you can find a copy, the book 'Man Powered Bullets' by Richard Middleton is almost as illuminating as it is amusing, his dry wit and self deprecation regarding health and safety make it well worth seeking out.

Essentially, a contracting rubber band will reach a maximum speed of about 270 fps, so without recourse to other materials you'll never make your rubber powered projectile go faster than this. In practice, because you're also accelerating the pouch and the ammunition as well as the bands, you'll be lucky to exceed 200fps by very much, so let's settle on 210fps as the maximum speed you'll likely make a projectile go.

A while ago, after chatting with Joerg Sprave, of Slingshot Channel fame, on another forum - Jacks Shed IRC - I made a spreadsheet to compare the initial energy of a projectile at 210fps made from three different materials; steel, lead and just for fun depleted uranium. In a variety of different diameters; 1mm to 26mm and some popular non-metric calibres (44cal, 50cal)

The results were surprisingly linear, a lead ball has approximately 50% more energy at it's fastest than an equivalent sized steel ball, but about 2/3s the energy of a DU ball. e.g. a .44 lead ball has 12.53 lbft-1 at 210fps, whereas steel would only carry 8.84 lbft-1 - you'd have to use a half inch steel ball to carry the same amount of energy at release. A half inch lead ball would have 18lbft-1. DU on the other hand, not that I'm advocating it's use for hunting, would carry a whopping 20.98 lbft-1 in .44 and a wrist straining 30.79lbft-1 in 50cal.

Yes... I am wearing my interesting trousers today.

 

[Janne]

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

[Tommyd345]

So where do I find lead balls in the sizes I want? eBay?

 

[gonzo_the_great]

Adze, that was interesting.
Of course, were you american you certainly would use DU. Superior stopping power!

Our cousins across the pond wouldn't be playing with rubber bands, they would be carrying hunting rifles and peobably a handgun on the hip, and a spare shotgun in the pack/at camp/in the truck/all three.... (Though no reason they couldn't use DU ammo !)

 

[Janne]

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

[Samon]

Catapult 'ballistics' can't really be compared to firearms for a simple reason: rubber bands have a fixed maximum speed of contraction whereas firearms are far superior in terms of how fast it will make a projectile travel based on quantity of propellant and the length of the barrel it's fired from. If you can find a copy, the book 'Man Powered Bullets' by Richard Middleton is almost as illuminating as it is amusing, his dry wit and self deprecation regarding health and safety make it well worth seeking out.

Essentially, a contracting rubber band will reach a maximum speed of about 270 fps, so without recourse to other materials you'll never make your rubber powered projectile go faster than this. In practice, because you're also accelerating the pouch and the ammunition as well as the bands, you'll be lucky to exceed 200fps by very much, so let's settle on 210fps as the maximum speed you'll likely make a projectile go.

A while ago, after chatting with Joerg Sprave, of Slingshot Channel fame, on another forum - Jacks Shed IRC - I made a spreadsheet to compare the initial energy of a projectile at 210fps made from three different materials; steel, lead and just for fun depleted uranium. In a variety of different diameters; 1mm to 26mm and some popular non-metric calibres (44cal, 50cal)

The results were surprisingly linear, a lead ball has approximately 50% more energy at it's fastest than an equivalent sized steel ball, but about 2/3s the energy of a DU ball. e.g. a .44 lead ball has 12.53 lbft-1 at 210fps, whereas steel would only carry 8.84 lbft-1 - you'd have to use a half inch steel ball to carry the same amount of energy at release. A half inch lead ball would have 18lbft-1. DU on the other hand, not that I'm advocating it's use for hunting, would carry a whopping 20.98 lbft-1 in .44 and a wrist straining 30.79lbft-1 in 50cal.

Yes... I am wearing my interesting trousers today.

My man, that was a good read! Gona try and find that book too.

So where do I find lead balls in the sizes I want? eBay?

Yeah search lead shot, catapult lead shot ammo etc on ebay and you'll find plenty. Tbf though buying a £12 multiple shot mould and sourcing scrap lead is what i did. I was given two rolls on roofing lead, scuba diving belt weights and all sorts. I'm set for ammo, and catapults.. and elastic.. lol just so damn lazy to walk to the woods and get some summer practice in.



Annnnd.... As catapults don't fit into firearm, air weapon or prohibited weapon, archery etc, am I right in assuming they don't fall into any silly 'eek a weapon' catagory when playing with it safely in the public outdoors? I've never had an issue and shoot mine out of sight but for those who might set up an outdoor target trap ona field as an example and playign safe, are they breaking the rules?

 

[Janne]

mmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

[Samon]

Old car batteries are a good source of lead. Empty the liquid in the nearest stream, then ( chisel and hammer) remove the top.
Rince the plates in the said stream.
Take the lead and chuck the rest under a bush.

Seriously? lol

 

[Robson Valley]

A better source of casting metal are the discarded wheel balancing weights from wheel/tire shops.
Provide them with a bucket to encourage their assistance.

Bad manners to dump battery acid into a watercourse. What are you thinking about aquatic ecosystems?
Actually, dumping the sulfuric acid on soil will neutralize and buffer the acid far faster, limestone in particular.

The lead/acid battery recycling plant is near Trail, BC. 5,000 batteries per day. The acid goes to a fertilizer plant.
The lead is washed and smashed and returns to the Cominco smelter. The plastic is washed and smashed
then melted into pellets, sold by the m^3 to a sheet plastic manufacturer = not a thing left in the environment.

 

[C_Claycomb]

Old roofing lead.

and just to make Janne really unhappy, when you do melt down your lead, just add a few pinches of antimony powder to to harden them up a bit.okenest:

One can be all moral about shooting lead around the landscape, but even if even if we all went out and shot lead balls across our green and verdant land, it would only amount to a fraction of the lead thrown by shot gunners, air gun shooters and .22 rifle shooters. If you use steel or other stuff for target shooting, or set up targets to catch spent balls, the amount of lead you lose while hunting will be really small. .38+ balls are going to be a lot easier to find, and a lot slower to break down, than .22 and .177 pellets, never mind all the No8s etc.

 

[Samon]

Old roofing lead.

and just to make Janne really unhappy, when you do melt down your lead, just add a few pinches of antimony powder to to harden them up a bit.okenest:

One can be all moral about shooting lead around the landscape, but even if even if we all went out and shot lead balls across our green and verdant land, it would only amount to a fraction of the lead thrown by shot gunners, air gun shooters and .22 rifle shooters. If you use steel or other stuff for target shooting, or set up targets to catch spent balls, the amount of lead you lose while hunting will be really small. .38+ balls are going to be a lot easier to find, and a lot slower to break down, than .22 and .177 pellets, never mind all the No8s etc.

Regarding the lead being bad for the enviroment. I was in my local gun shop and his nosey wife was behind the counter while I was asking if he sells round musket balls and lead moulds etc.

She actually said "what if a deer eats the lead shot, lead is poisonous". LOL! Her husband has sold guns for over 40 years used to kill every game animal in the nation with friggin lead! lololol

Needless to say I held my laughs and made it clear I use steel for target practice and only lead for kills.

Seriously though, why the hell do people even mention lead when it comes to shooting? It's the ideal material, cheap and plentiful. What can a few handfulls of lead over many many acres of land possibly do?

 

[Janne]

mmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

[santaman2000]

Every time I hear the word 'catapult' I think of a castle under siege or Roman troops flinging flammable jars of pitch. Here we just call them slingshots. The modern ones using latex tubing we often refer to as 'wrist rockets' which was a marketing term used for them in the USA back in the 1970's......

.....I wondered why the plethora of catapults had appeared instead

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2017/05/ancient-slingshot-lethal-44-magnum-scotland/

I expect the comics had a lot to do with it

 

[Janne]

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

[slowworm]

Do you guys using lead realize what it does in Nature?

I'm aware of the problems of animals ingesting lead shot but I'm not sure of any problem with a lead ball that isn't likely to be eaten? After all lead is still used for roofing, potable water pipes etc. Not that I approve of hunting with catapults though.

As to sources, wheel weights are often not lead these days, or, sadly, anything of much use to home casting hard lead. I've collected loads of lead fishing weights on my local beaches, old water pipes, scrap roofing lead or even lead scrap out of shooting ranges.