Carrying knives to the woods - knife license...inevitably rambling onto American gun stuff

[Laurentius]

To be honest i'm use to having restrictions placed on me because of it so I would agree with the decision, although I wouldn't like it.

Perhaps it's the classification of a "knife" that needs to change to help

For example:

I do not know what on earth the item in the bottom photograph is supposed to be other than a failed pair of scissors is but the reality is that Stanley knives, innocuous though they may appear have been used in many more woundings and violent assualts than the wierd fantasy item. The same of course could be said of beer bottles and glasses, having had the stitches to prove it.

 

[C_Claycomb]

hmmmm. would the equivalent of a sub 12ft.lb rifle be a short knife, or a dull knife?

 

[C_Claycomb]

Hey Broch,
Gotta put my hands up on starting the thread using license when I should have used licence. I plead dyslexia AND learning to spell in American!

 

[lostplanet]

As a matter of interest, how do the swedish control knife use?

 

[henchy3rd]

To be honest i'm use to having restrictions placed on me because of it so I would agree with the decision, although I wouldn't like it.

Perhaps it's the classification of a "knife" that needs to change to help

For example:

I see no reason what so ever for someone to carry a double blade like that, apart from to brag or use with content?
what purpose would it be used for as I ain’t got the slightest idea?

 

[Broch]

Hey Broch,
Gotta put my hands up on starting the thread using license when I should have used licence. I plead dyslexia AND learning to spell in American!

Ask me tomorrow and I'll have forgotten which way round it is but I plead old age

 

[TeeDee]

I do not know what on earth the item in the bottom photograph is supposed to be other than a failed pair of scissors is but the reality is that Stanley knives, innocuous though they may appear have been used in many more woundings and violent assualts than the wierd fantasy item. The same of course could be said of beer bottles and glasses, having had the stitches to prove it.

Although I agree -because these are polar examples , there will be a point of subjectivity won't there? I mean a Mora gets an automatic tick , a Woodlore clone - Tick

Rambo Crain saw toothed knife? Not everyone's cup of tea but no more dangerous than some Kitchen knives.

A Skrama?

A Beck WSK?


At what point do lines , styles and edge geometry , size become objective and not subjective.

 

[henchy3rd]

Ask me tomorrow and I'll have forgotten which way round it is but I plead old age

I didn’t notice because of my mild dyslexia.in fact I kept reading it over & over again trying to spot the mistake

 

[Broch]

It all comes back to purpose and intent. If it looks like a whittling knife you stand a good chance of convincing the law that you intend to whittle; if it looks like a zombie killing multi-bladed gutting device, less so.

 

[C_Claycomb]

Difficult question TeeDee.
The intent of the designer is often there. There are a lot of knives that have been designed for martial arts, self defence, or just to look intimidating. Most folk that know knives could pick things designed with those intents from a barrel of utilitarian designs. Trying to list what features make the difference is really hard to pin down. As you say, it doesn't make a lot of difference to how dangerous a knife is, but it does make a difference for why it is made, why it is sold and why it might be carried.

 

[TeeDee]

It all comes back to purpose and intent. If it looks like a whittling knife you stand a good chance of convincing the law that you intend to whittle; if it looks like a zombie killing multi-bladed gutting device, less so.

So what would you say about this? Seems mostly despised by the UK bushcrafters ( maybe rightly so ) but strong support by a section of the US Bushy crowd.

( Yes - I do realise what I said elsewhere regarding UK laws and this forum , just trying to reiterate that subjectivity is that - subjective to the individual and individual police officer / judge )

 

[TeeDee]

Difficult question TeeDee.
The intent of the designer is often there. There are a lot of knives that have been designed for martial arts, self defence, or just to look intimidating. Most folk that know knives could pick things designed with those intents from a barrel of utilitarian designs. Trying to list what features make the difference is really hard to pin down. As you say, it doesn't make a lot of difference to how dangerous a knife is, but it does make a difference for why it is made, why it is sold and why it might be carried.

I agree.

Slight tangent - I'm still surprised that one can purchase a 200lb cheapo crossbow without a permit or licence.

In my head I think crossbows 'may' appeal to a certain type - especially the cheaper mass produced stuff and i see it in the same kind of area as zombie knives.

But the one could argue the same ability and danger is inherent in the most basic 50 lb Archers bow. To launch a projectile capable of killing.

 

[Broch]

I agree.

Slight tangent - I'm still surprised that one can purchase a 200lb cheapo crossbow without a permit or licence.

In my head I think crossbows 'may' appeal to a certain type - especially the cheaper mass produced stuff and i see it in the same kind of area as zombie knives.

But the one could argue the same ability and danger is inherent in the most basic 50 lb Archers bow. To launch a projectile capable of killing.

I agree, and have made exactly the same comment on another thread. Even a £10 Black-Widow catapult is capable of killing by a shot to the head.

 

[Broch]

So what would you say about this? Seems mostly despised by the UK bushcrafters ( maybe rightly so ) but strong support by a section of the US Bushy crowd.

( Yes - I do realise what I said elsewhere regarding UK laws and this forum , just trying to reiterate that subjectivity is that - subjective to the individual and individual police officer / judge )

View attachment 64757

If you can objectively justify the design for a specific purpose I would have to concede. However, I have yet to see anyone actually give me good enough reason for the design. IIRC it's a tracking knife? I've done a fair bit of tracking and wouldn't dare get that out in the company I've been out with - but I realise that's subjective.

 

[TeeDee]

If you can objectively justify the design for a specific purpose I would have to concede. However, I have yet to see anyone actually give me good enough reason for the design. IIRC it's a tracking knife? I've done a fair bit of tracking and wouldn't dare get that out in the company I've been out with - but I realise that's subjective.

The Becks WSK ( Wilderness Survival Knife ) predates the Tom Brown Tracker related thing. He basically borrowed the design.

 

[Herman30]

So what I did last summer in my hometown would not be possible in the UK? I took an axe to the pub, when stopping for a beer after a day out to a fireplace on the coast. We were with biccycles and I did not want to leave the axe at the bike outside. I did give it to the man behind the counter to hold until I left, though. And the axe was carried like this:


But in all fairness, had the police seen this I think I might have gotten some problem.

 

[C_Claycomb]

Herman30,
Since the UK is rather different from Finland regarding public fire places and relationship with nature, the whole scenario you describe would be very unusual here. That said, I think you might have been okay. Might.


I will elaborate on the scenario we were given at the Moot when we talked knife laws.
Two people going to the Moot (Merthyr Mawr, near Bridgend, Wales). One driving their car, one travelling by train. One coming from Birmingham, the other from London. They agree to meet at the Bristol train station, then drive together the rest of the way. Both have packed knives in their rucksacks. The train traveller has "good reason" to have a knife in their pack on public transport. They arrive at the Bristol station and have to wait for the driver to arrive. They are hungry and go out of the station to get something in a nearby café. They still have a "good reason", stopping for food on the journey is a reasonable action and they don't have anything else that they could do with their pack.

The driver arrives, parks their car and goes to find their friend in the café. They are worried about leaving their knife in their car since they know that the inside of a car is a public place, so they take their whole pack with them. They get to the café and get something to eat too.

The police officer providing this example said that the train traveller clearly had good reason, but the car driver, no so much. That while they might argue that they acted with best intent and good faith, they could have left their pack, and knife, in their locked car. Therefore they didn't need to have it with them in the café, where the knife was more accessible to them or anyone who stole the bag. That line of reasoning changes a bit if the vehicle has no out-of-sight storage, is a convertible, or a motor cycle.

 

[henchy3rd]

I agree.

Slight tangent - I'm still surprised that one can purchase a 200lb cheapo crossbow without a permit or licence.

In my head I think crossbows 'may' appeal to a certain type - especially the cheaper mass produced stuff and i see it in the same kind of area as zombie knives.

But the one could argue the same ability and danger is inherent in the most basic 50 lb Archers bow. To launch a projectile capable of killing.

Yes you are right about a certain type?
Most archery clubs will not allow crossbows or pistol style crossbows on site for that reason,It’s more to do with being associated with wildlife cruelty.

As for a decent slingshot in the wrong hands I personally think they can be more dangerous than a legal air rifle..easy to conceal & deadly accurate.
Yet they are such good fun firing clay balls at a score card.

 

[C_Claycomb]

Deadly accurate? Maybe you can tell that to my catapult. It doesn't generally listen to me!

Concealability is variable. A Barnett Diablo Pro is anything but pocketable. I do know what you mean though.

As a teen my friend and I had Black Widow catapults. Themselves not all that pocketable. We got some ball bearings and thought to try them for hunting in the area we had permission to shoot over with our air rifles. I remember I managed to hit a pigeon, and it just flew away without missing a wing beat.

I think that illustrates why catapults are not up there with knives for causing problems. They take practice to use and taking the time to learn doesn't appeal to the most trouble some members of society. They also do not have the intrinsic "cool" factor for idiots of gun shaped things.

 

[mimozine]

So what would you say about this? Seems mostly despised by the UK bushcrafters ( maybe rightly so ) but strong support by a section of the US Bushy crowd.

( Yes - I do realise what I said elsewhere regarding UK laws and this forum , just trying to reiterate that subjectivity is that - subjective to the individual and individual police officer / judge )

View attachment 64757

yeah what does tom brown know about survival
and what does dave beck know about making knives

oh wait rather a lot...