Carrying knives on public transport

[Peanut]

Robin Wood - I agree with your point. It certainly doesn't happen to be very often that someone ets sent to prison for being in possession of a knife in questionable circumstances. This is for a variety of reasons, with include (most of all) money - it costs a lot of money to put someone through the courts and the courts and then keep them at Her Majesty's leisure. The courts more often than not just order the destruction of the item and maybe give the people a fine and a telling off, then send them on their way. As with most offences in law, the maximum sentences are there in case they need to be used. The law is very black and white. It states that if you do (insert action here), you will go to prison for x amount oftime. However, the courts have sentencing standards and are often told by the government to dispose of people in an alternative manner. I'm sure someone in history has gone to prison for possessing a knife without good reason, but they are the minority of cases. I wouldn't like to become an example of such a person though (as unlikely as that may be). People don't have anything to lose sleep over. You know if you really need to carry whatever it is you choose to carry. If you don't need to, don't. If you can't justify it to yourself, don't carry it.

I would like to add here that I nearly always have some kind of bladed article on me, whether that be a leatherman at work or a simple SAK Spartan in my pocket as an EDC. Do I use them every day? Nope. Do I use them often enough to warrant carrying them nearly every day? I think so, and I'm confident I can convince a court of that if need be. I'd certainly found some pretty original (in my opinion) solutions to petty little problems due to having such items on me, and those problems would have taken a lot longer to solve if those tools hadn't been to hand.


At the end of the day, if you don't need it, don't carry it. If you can justify it, you have nothing to worry about.

 

[nigeltm]

OK so can you give me any example of a person who has been sent to prison for possession of a knife where there may be some question about whether they had good reason or not? ...

My mistake (should remember not to respond using my phone one he train, I never read the posts thoroughly!).

What I was trying to get across is that you may have difficulty with your reasonable excuse as it is your opinion, which may not be the same as that held by the Police, CPS and judge. While you're unlikely to be sent to prison you are likely to be; arrested, taken to the station, questioned, possibly charged, have your day in court, miss your train (as the Op's question was about public transport), have a criminal record (even off not convicted you will still have a record of being arrested which could impact future jobs and international travel) and finally have your shiny toys confiscated and destroyed.

At the end of the day its all about context. Where you are, where you're going, what you're carrying, how you're carrying and especially your attitude if you are stopped. A few coppers I know talk about the "attitude test". Pass that and you're much more likely to stay out of trouble.

 

[robin wood]

you are likely to be; arrested, taken to the station, questioned, possibly charged, have your day in court, miss your train (as the Op's question was about public transport), have a criminal record (even off not convicted you will still have a record of being arrested which could impact future jobs and international travel) and finally have your shiny toys confiscated and destroyed.

OK lets test this theory out. Here we have a forum full of folk that regularly carry knives in public places with good reason (yes we all know it is up to us to convince them it's a good reason) I personally believe you are incorrect in saying it is likely that all these bad things will happen but lets put it to the test. Has anyone reading this thread as a result of carrying knives in public places been "arrested, taken to the station, questioned, possibly charged, had your day in court, missed your train, had a criminal record and finally had your shiny toys confiscated and destroyed."
Is this likely to happen? does it happen all the time? have I just been very lucky? or are the police actually more interested in folk that are likely to commit an offense.

 

[Sparrowhawk]

...are the police actually more interested in folk that are likely to commit an offense.

As long as you are a human being then you're likely to commit an offence. The police are trained not to discriminate according race, age, appearance, height, weight, distinguishing features or sexual orientation. They will either pick you up as a result of a random stop-and-search (saw a lot of those when I worked on the railway) or due to your behaviour.
Bear in mind you don't have to satisfy the law that you have a valid reason, you have to satisfy the arresting officer. Which opens the way to whole lot of interpretation.

 

[Corso]

Robin Wood I would like to add here that I nearly always have some kind of bladed article on me, whether that be a leatherman at work or a simple SAK Spartan in my pocket as an EDC. Do I use them every day? Nope. Do I use them often enough to warrant carrying them nearly every day? I think so, and I'm confident I can convince a court of that if need be. I'd certainly found some pretty original (in my opinion) solutions to petty little problems due to having such items on me, and those problems would have taken a lot longer to solve if those tools hadn't been to hand.

you wouldn't need to with the spartan its legal edc - The CPS would have to prove you had it on you with melicious intent

 

[John Fenna]

It is an incredibly rare day that I do not carry at least one blade on me - and a leatherman tool is an almost constant companion.
I have never been stopped by the police for anything (except once for speeding [let off with a verbal] and once due to the fact that a copper thought I was not wearing my seatbelt - he was wrong) and have never had to put it all to the test....
Being of advancing years and looking harmless might be an advantage here, but so (I would think) is a mild attitude and law abiding behaviour - just not attracting unwanted attention ......

 

[shogun]

i have to say i have meet a few coppers and they where all ok (except the power freak cop) am in charge kind of guy..but i think these days if your pack is searched and they find something there going to charge you..after all its another coller for them and money for the courts..from now on if i take anything its getting hidden in sleeping bag before i travel because i am a criminal now for doing a hobby i like...atb Allan

 

[santaman2000]

OK lets test this theory out. Here we have a forum full of folk that regularly carry knives in public places with good reason (yes we all know it is up to us to convince them it's a good reason) I personally believe you are incorrect in saying it is likely that all these bad things will happen but lets put it to the test. Has anyone reading this thread as a result of carrying knives in public places been "arrested, taken to the station, questioned, possibly charged, had your day in court, missed your train, had a criminal record and finally had your shiny toys confiscated and destroyed."
Is this likely to happen? does it happen all the time? have I just been very lucky? or are the police actually more interested in folk that are likely to commit an offense.

May I make a suggestion here? Obviously someone who has been arrested (rightly or wrongly) is going to have a somewhat biased opinion and someone who carries but has never been stopped doesn't really know what the outcome might be. It might be more enlightening to hear from those who have been stopped while carrying and have been sent on their way with no problems. They would have first hand knowledge and no negative bias. That said it might also be useful to note how recent or how old that experience is to see if the trends are changing.

 

[shogun]

i am going into my local police station tomorrow to ask some questions about this...as i would like to no what they say?

 

[Kepis]

i was told by the plod when i enquired about carrying sharps on public transport, albeit a good time ago now, that if it is not within easy reach, ie in your pack and it's going to take you a little while to get to it and you had good reason to be carrying it, ie, work, going on a course or going "wild" camping, not just camping, then any officer with an ounce of common sense would just send you on your way, if people are that worried about it, why not get a small pelican case or similar and put your sharps in it and put a padlock on it, that way it's not only packed away and not within easy reach, it's also secured away as well and most definitely not easily accessible.

Dare say things have changed a lot since i asked though with targets and quota's that need filling.

Thankfully i live and work in a fairly rural area and most people, including the plod recognise a knife and axe for what they are, tools, not weapons, i have to admit hough, that if im going into town i dont carry any sharps with me, i dont need a knife to go to the Post Office or the bank so i leave them at home, tis bit of common sense really, it's about the only time i dont have a knife of some description on my person though.

 

[DavidJT]

I do something similar, I secure the knife into the sheath with a cable tie, then put it at the bottom of my pack.
Snip off the cable tie with SAK on arrival at camp.

 

[shogun]

I do something similar, I secure the knife into the sheath with a cable tie, then put it at the bottom of my pack.
Snip off the cable tie with SAK on arrival at camp.

good idea with the cable tie am going to do this...

 

[Peanut]

In the grand scheme of things, if your case ended up with the CPS, unless they were low on their figures (don't even get me started on that!), they are supposed to look at whether it's in the public interest to use valuable court time and money to take the case before the magistrates. I'd imagine that having a knife at the bottom of a bag full of camping gear, where it took the officer a long time to find it and would obviously take a lot of effort to get to, you're not the kind of lunatic that'll stab someone for taking the last seat on the tube.

It's all common sense at the end of the day. Most of the officers I know and have worked with have their heads screwed on straight and would often give words of advice etc. There are the odd few that are in it for the figures and glory, and if you meet them, you're unfortunate.

The mandatory sentences of instant imprisonment for first time offenders etc are pretty much just scaremongering by the politicians who were expected to do something as a result of yet another person being murdered with a knife. Unfortunately to me it is one of those things of the many being punished for the actions of the few, and I fear this will only get worse. Eventually every kitchen knife will be seized and we'll all have to eat with plastic spoons just in case we become the next axe murderer.

For the time being, I don't personally think that the sentences that are thrown around in the media are anything to worry about in most circumstances. There aren't enough prison cells for people committing serious offences such as robbery and burglary, so I wouldn't imagine someone with a tarp, trangia stove and woodlore clone would take priority over them.

 

[shogun]

In the grand scheme of things, if your case ended up with the CPS, unless they were low on their figures (don't even get me started on that!), they are supposed to look at whether it's in the public interest to use valuable court time and money to take the case before the magistrates. I'd imagine that having a knife at the bottom of a bag full of camping gear, where it took the officer a long time to find it and would obviously take a lot of effort to get to, you're not the kind of lunatic that'll stab someone for taking the last seat on the tube.

It's all common sense at the end of the day. Most of the officers I know and have worked with have their heads screwed on straight and would often give words of advice etc. There are the odd few that are in it for the figures and glory, and if you meet them, you're unfortunate.

The mandatory sentences of instant imprisonment for first time offenders etc are pretty much just scaremongering by the politicians who were expected to do something as a result of yet another person being murdered with a knife. Unfortunately to me it is one of those things of the many being punished for the actions of the few, and I fear this will only get worse. Eventually every kitchen knife will be seized and we'll all have to eat with plastic spoons just in case we become the next axe murderer.

For the time being, I don't personally think that the sentences that are thrown around in the media are anything to worry about in most circumstances. There aren't enough prison cells for people committing serious offences such as robbery and burglary, so I wouldn't imagine someone with a tarp, trangia stove and woodlore clone would take priority over them.

excellent post..cheers

 

[Sparrowhawk]

In the grand scheme of things, if your case ended up with the CPS, unless they were low on their figures (don't even get me started on that!), they are supposed to look at whether it's in the public interest to use valuable court time and money to take the case before the magistrates. I'd imagine that having a knife at the bottom of a bag full of camping gear, where it took the officer a long time to find it and would obviously take a lot of effort to get to, you're not the kind of lunatic that'll stab someone for taking the last seat on the tube.

It's all common sense at the end of the day. Most of the officers I know and have worked with have their heads screwed on straight and would often give words of advice etc. There are the odd few that are in it for the figures and glory, and if you meet them, you're unfortunate.

The mandatory sentences of instant imprisonment for first time offenders etc are pretty much just scaremongering by the politicians who were expected to do something as a result of yet another person being murdered with a knife. Unfortunately to me it is one of those things of the many being punished for the actions of the few, and I fear this will only get worse. Eventually every kitchen knife will be seized and we'll all have to eat with plastic spoons just in case we become the next axe murderer.

For the time being, I don't personally think that the sentences that are thrown around in the media are anything to worry about in most circumstances. There aren't enough prison cells for people committing serious offences such as robbery and burglary, so I wouldn't imagine someone with a tarp, trangia stove and woodlore clone would take priority over them.

I think you're right. Behaviour and attitude trump the actual posession of the object. Most of the coppers I have worked with were not only decent, well intentioned men and women but were almost all carrying folding lock knives! I kept my trap shut about that though.