Canvas tarps

[larry the spark]

I recently purchased a 10'x12' 120z. canvas tarp from Silvermans for £50.
Have yet to try it properly in the field though first impressions are encouraging.

Will sleep 2 maybe 3 with full kit comfortably depending on set up. Needs 9mm purlon to hold it up though and it is very heavy compared to a basha, though similar to carrying a small canvas tent (similar size to carry with ropes and pegs). Doubt it would appeal to those for who pack weight is primary concern. I like the idea of being able to sleep in front of a fire without the worry of my shelter catching light or developing holes.

Will let you know how it functions when I'm next out overnight. Got to get a groundsheet first

Check out the link for a very comprehensive run down on various ways of using a tarp... it's really excellent.


www.equipped.com/tarp-shelters.pdf

 

[RAPPLEBY2000]

as you will know canvas has been used for hundreds of years for tents and baggage.

there are some points good and bad.

bad:
it's heavy :-(
if wet its hevier
you will probabbly waterproof it with parafin wax which IS a fire hazard.
it is bulky more, so when wet.
if left wet it will get mildew and will degrade quicker than nylon.
it's heavy, bulky and heavy again! and bulky! :roll:

good points: :-D

if looked after properly it could outlast nylon versions by decades!
if prooffed correctly and set up correctly it will make a more sturdy shelter than that of nylon.
it is easily repaired.


i personally like the idea but there are several neggative points, which are based on weight and bulk neither of which i can afford in my kit.

i often think about having 2 kits though a 2003 version and a 1803 version!

 

[martin]

The best thing I've found for waterproofing canvas (rag top on my old Landie) is Thompsons Waterseal. The stuff you use on brickwork.

 

[larry the spark]

Not sure but I think traditional cotton canvas is waterproof. The cotton fibers swell when they get wet which seals the weave. Somebody gave me a can of spray on Nikwax Cottonproof. I reckon that should do the job to aid run off. Anybody used it? Think its water based so hopefully not flammable! (got to check the tin though)

I also use a basha but its dead wee. Wanted something that would function a bit like a Whelen Lean-to for at least two people and this is ideal. Pack weight is my main concern but I figure if you are with someone else, you split the equipment needed

 

[Hoodoo]

Well I'm very fond of the 8 ft x10 ft poly tarp. These cost around $5 -$10 and are fairly light. If you burn a few holes in one while sleeping close to a fire, no big deal. Patch it with duct tape and buy another for next time. It's the perfect emergency shelter. I love nylon and especially sil nylon for backpacking but in comparison to poly tarps, they are much more expensive and also thinner and therefore more easily damaged by sparks. So the poly tarp has become the perfect "sleep by the fire" emergency tarp for me.

 

[Tony]

You make a good point Hoodoo. The cost of the tarp is relative to how close to the fire it can go, and thus it's over all usefulness as a shelter, especially a cold weather shelter. A few £ and a bit of duck tape go a long way. £50 and you start pitching as far away as possible! Fire resistance is one thing that canvas has got going for it. In the thread Nikwax proofing is mentioned, this would be a good move and it is water based and so it will not encourage the fabric to burn. Which is a good thing. Now someone just has to overcome the weight and all will be well! Maybe we could make Ventile tarps!

 

[Hoodoo]

Yup, I've thought similarly about ventile and I have an 8x10 ft ventile tarp. I just haven't put it to use yet. I do have some misgivings about it though. I have a feeling that after about 8 hours in heavy rain, the ventile won't stand up. This is based on the literature that came from the company that makes ventile. So I dunno. Also, I checked with the company and they said any fireproofing you do to the ventile will ruin the dye and probably destroy the waterproofing, giving the impression that the ventile would need to be fireproofed from the factory.

When I was a kid, I saw a lot of canvas tents burn. Usually when they catch a spark, they burn a perfect hole. One time when I was in the boy scouts some friends burned a hole in the side of their tent big enough you could walk through it. :-D

I've tested small hunks of ventile and like other pure cotton material, it's quite flammable.

I just did a quick weighing. My 8x10 ventile tarp weighs 3 lbs, 3 oz. An 8x10 poly tarp weighs 1 lb 9 oz, and an 8x10 canvas tarp (10 or 12oz material, I forget), fully waterproofed and fireproofed, weighs 10 lbs, 12 oz.

 

[RAPPLEBY2000]

:bu:
are we not forgetting the stand by fire source in most people fire kit?

cotton wool!

yes, cotton is definitely flamable!

i know what you mean about the ventile water proofing effect, i have a 1960 cira pup tent, made of canvas not even a ground sheet!

when put up normally, it is slightly floppy, when wet it gets very taught, and becomes more wind resistant and stronger certainly it is more sturdy when wet!

i have had problems with rain leaking through with canvas tents though!
never again will i use them in heavy or constant rain! once the drips start they keep comming! :aargh4:

make sure you take a bivi bag just incase!

 

[larry the spark]

Ventile sounds great in theory. Could you Nikwax that to give it more water resistance?

My 10'x12' weighs slightly over a stone with rope. OUCH! Ah well.... lugged a full ruck 50 miles over 5 days on DOE Gold Award when i was 17. That hurt like hell and isn't something I'm in a hurry to repeat! I reckon it'll be used on more comfortable outings where enjoyment takes precendence over endurance!

 

[Hoodoo]

I'm not familiar with Nikwax but I just looked it up on the net and it sounds interesting. Has anyone here used it and if so, with what success?

 

[Tony]

Nikwax is very good. We are testing a few of their products at the moment and they are quite impressive.

What would the US equivalent be? Water based, water proofing. They do a product to suit most materials.

 

[gurushaun]

I've always had great results with Nikwax prodoucts, used thier spray on wax on my Filson Tin Cloth jacket, I've got some Cotton Proof that I plan to use on an Army Windproof Smock that I've just picked up.

Cheers

Shaun

 

[RAPPLEBY2000]

we used to sell nikwax by the bucket load at my old shops!

there are two popular ones (pepsi/coke):
Nikwax and Grangers, i shant compare them as they are pretty much the same!

the cotton proofing used to be known as TX10 but now it is just "cotton proofing" but TX10 is still found on the bottle somewhere.

grangers version is the same.

"cotton proof" is an expensive way to proof canvas, i would stick to the traditional wax or silicone version as you don't need the canvas to "breath"!

 

[bothyman]

we used to sell nikwax by the bucket load at my old shops

So is it a lot cheaper to buy it by the bucket??

I usually buy it in the little Tins :roll:

 

[bigjackbrass]

Nikwax products are available in the US, but are not widely known. Contact Nikwax for a list of distributors: http://www.nikwax.com/uk/default.asp

As for proofing Ventile, Snowsled supply their Ventile garments proofed with Grangers' products and recommend them for reproofing. Can't say I've noticed any difference in the performance of them over Nikwax, so either should be fine for the job.

The main thing to remember with cotton canvas is don't touch the tent! It will remain pretty much impervious to water under surprisingly rough conditions, but touch the inside of the canvas and you break the tension, so water starts dripping through. I know of no way to stop this effect once it begins until the tent has dried out.

 

[Hoodoo]

Absolutely right bjb. I learned that one the hard way when I was a kid in scouts. It happened to me right in the middle of a terrific storm that lasted all night. My "cure" was to spray it with mosquito dope. :shock: So not only water dripped on my head, but mosquito dope too. \:

 

[Stew]

I used to use the paint on nikwax stuff for an old pair of (non-waterproof) fabric walking boots and it certainly did the trick with them.

Of course now I've got better boots and waterproof socks if things become desperate...

 

[alick]

Nikwax products are available in the US, but are not widely known. Contact Nikwax for a list of distributors: http://www.nikwax.com/uk/default.asp

Jack, Nikwax isn't as unknown here as you might think. Climbing and outdoors shops are the places to look. All the good ones : Snow & Rock, Cotswold, Ellis Brigham, Field & Trek, etc have been selling most of the range for 20 years+. You can often find Nikwax products in motorcycle accessory shops too.

Cheers

 

[bigjackbrass]

I was referring to the US, Alick, rather than the UK. Here in England Nikwax is ubiquitous, and indeed I just picked up a bottle of Cotton Proof this afternoon. In America it's harder to find, but it is out there. I wore Paramo waterproofs when I lived in the States and needed it to keep them in top nick. So to speak. Good grief, I can't avoid puns even when I'm not trying for them!

 

[Carpe_Diem]

We have a company here called Wilderness Equipment (www.wildequipment.com.au) who make tarps out of Siliconised Nylon which has incredible tear strength and significantly lighter than normal nylon. Water just runs straight off it.

Prior to this I used to use Aus Army hootchie - hated other commercial tarps etc because of the awful bright colouring that most of these items come in. Wilderness Equipment make these tarps in Olive green and Khakhi only, and 3m x 3m tarp with grommets on the end, and NO seams on the tarp at all weighs approx 600g.

Had this system for about 1yr and yet to scratch or tear any of it. All up my sleep system weighs about 2kg incl a Tvkey groundsheet, custom made NO SEE UM mesh netting and Snugpak Softie 3. In Winter i use Softie 6.