Canteen & stove questions

[shortymcsteve]

Hi guys, this is my first post here but i have been reading the forum for a while learning a lot of info but i finally decided to sign up so i can ask for some advice and also try give some back into the community.

So i have always been into the outdoors as a young boy and through my teenage years but only now am i finally starting to put together my much needed kit to cater for my outdoor trips.
I have seen a lot of questions regarding stoves and different systems but none of which fully answered my questions and i felt that i did not want to resurrect old topics. (im not sure if this was the right thing to do?)

Anyway i have started building my own hobo stove as a way to keep things cheap without spending too much money but now i have realized that total building cost is going to be almost £10 for what i want and i should have really just put it towards the kit that i was avoiding spending money on but i guess the hobo stove will be a nice experiment.
The main cooking system that caught my eye and that i planned to buy was the crusader system but to buy that all as a package is £40 on most webstores and if you buy it in parts it costs around £30 (this is still expensive i think).
I have also been interested in the US alternative as it is a similar idea but appears to be the same price when bought as a package.
When comparing these two i was wondering what the real difference between the canteens are? What really bothers me is the cost of a Crusader cup is around £12-£15 but i can pick up a US canteen for £5! Is there really any difference? does anyone know of anyone who has done a review both side by side because i have been looking all over but no one seems to talk about this. If i do buy the crusader cup i really want to justify spending that amount of money on something where i could have bought the US equivalent for a 3rd of the cost.

Also i was wondering where stove to people prefer, The crusader or the US canteen stove?
I feel that the crusader is less useful as with the US system you could also use wood for burning but i would find this hard to see using the crusader, i see it only for gel/alcohol fuel.

My last question is; are the US and crusader system compatible with each other? For example if i bought the NATO water bottle & (plastic) cup would this fit into the US canteen? Or would the US stove fit over a crusader cup?
I was also wondering if anyone has tested both US and NATO water bottles? I don't know where the NATO versions are produced but i read a review of the US bottle and there was a comment about non US made versions gave a real plastic taste to the water and were also cheap plastic, also causing water to leak from the top. Where as the US made version was not as bad to drink from and was a lot tougher and far more durable.

I hope someone can answer my questions, im sure a lot of you guys use these systems. If anyone can recommend a good place to buy any of the above items at an affordable cost & also recommend a nice affordable pouch to house everything in that would be great.

Thanks for your time!
- Chris

 

[rickyamos]

yes there is a size difference and no they US cup will not fit the '58 NATO bottle, buy the NATO water bottle (ospray) not the cheap knock offs and cup, best in my opinion.

 

[Rabbitsmacker]

us stuff is good and very ergonomic. british stuff much better, built to last but a bit heavier. you could split the difference, and get the dutch stuff, which looks like US stuff, but built to british standards. the dutch cup is as good as a crusader, just not as big, the dutch bottle is basically a US shaped british bottle. look at endicotts, and you'll see it.
just get a little esbit hexi cooker and stuff it in a side pocket.

just my opinion, and welcome to the forum, the people on here are great. think of it as a never ending pub chat without the beer mats!

 

[shortymcsteve]

yes there is a size difference and no they US cup will not fit the '58 NATO bottle, buy the NATO water bottle (ospray) not the cheap knock offs and cup, best in my opinion.

Thanks for the reply.
Whats the big difference between the Ospray made and other brands? All the surplus stores around here only seem to see the 'Highlander Pro-Force 58 Water Bottle'
and Highlander seem to be a good brand for other things but was unsure about the difference with their copys. Im guessing they just buy them from someone in china?

 

[Rabbitsmacker]

sorry to butt in, there is very little difference in cost, a world of difference in quality. just get a genuine one, i have 2, they are my original 2 bought in 1996 or something, original seals and lids, no leaks, no probs, one is dated 1990! and was issued when i got it. brilliant kit. highlander, well, it's similar, like morrisons coke is similar to propper coke, but not quite as good!

 

[rickyamos]

if you put '58 NATO bottle next to a copy then you would see the diference in the plastic quality, and see that the NATO bottle is made of much stronger stuff. 15 years in the RAF and the NATO bottle rocks and never let me down.

 

[realgoshawk]

If you need something to cook your food in why don't you give the swedish army a chance ?

http://www.raeer.com/shopexd.asp?page=&id=23153?var=00000

You'll find this one on ebay too and there are a lot of vids on youtube.

The burner itself is a trangia and you can make a wood fire inside the windshield.

Regards
Andreas

 

[JDO330]

I would carry on with the hobo for now, keep looking for bits to make it better and then enjoy it whilst remembering you made it! Also try making a nice little penny stove / coke can stove to go with it.

 

[spiritwalker]

you can get a swiss volcano stove for under a tenner which includes a water bottle and can be used as a hobo stove with sticks or hexamine tabs or a small meths burner..Job done its a fast little stove too

see this thread for more info and a fuel alternative.

http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=64102

 

[shortymcsteve]

us stuff is good and very ergonomic. british stuff much better, built to last but a bit heavier. you could split the difference, and get the dutch stuff, which looks like US stuff, but built to british standards. the dutch cup is as good as a crusader, just not as big, the dutch bottle is basically a US shaped british bottle. look at endicotts, and you'll see it.
just get a little esbit hexi cooker and stuff it in a side pocket.

just my opinion, and welcome to the forum, the people on here are great. think of it as a never ending pub chat without the beer mats!

Thanks for the welcome!
Where can i find the dutch stuff? i looked on endicotts like you suggested but their website is not working so do you know of anywhere else? i goggled it but not sure what im looking for exactly.
I have seen those hexi stoves online with the canteen cutout plate that goes over the top, i think thats a good idea but its hard to find them & how long do those really last? its suggested to only use a hexi stove only a few times. I have used them before when it was windy with hexi blocks and it was useless.
I think i would rather use this guys idea which i think is quite smart as you just carry less kit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9nawS_BvyM
Those esbit blocks he has, are those just hexi blocks? not seen them here before in the little packets like that tho.

if you put '58 NATO bottle next to a copy then you would see the diference in the plastic caulity, and see that the NATO bottle is made of much stronger stuff. 15 years in the RAF and the NATO bottle rocks and never let me down.

Okay thanks, i have a friend in the RAF Regiment actually, maybe i should ask him if he has any spare kit.

If you need something to cook your food in why don't you give the swedish army a chance ?

http://www.raeer.com/shopexd.asp?page=&id=23153?var=00000

You'll find this one on ebay too and there are a lot of vids on youtube.

The burner itself is a trangia and you can make a wood fire inside the windshield.

Regards
Andreas

Thanks Andreas, i have already looked at this option but i dont like the shape but i think it is a good idea.. maybe if i had a little more space but im hoping to hook this kit only my belt in a little pouch or on the side of my rucksack.

I would carry on with the hobo for now, keep looking for bits to make it better and then enjoy it whilst remembering you made it! Also try making a nice little penny stove / coke can stove to go with it.

I am going to carry on with the Hobo but im in need to a mug/water bottle anyway and i would eventually buy this kit at some point so why not now.

you can get a swiss volcano stove for under a tenner which includes a water bottle and can be used as a hobo stove with sticks or hexamine tabs or a small meths burner..Job done its a fast little stove too

see this thread for more info and a fuel alternative.

http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=64102

I remember reading your topic about this before, unfortunately the store you got those blocks from are not in Scotland but that was a great find for only 2.99! i will have a look for something similar.
I did look at the volcano stove and thought it was great for the money but how big is it compared to a US/Crusared system when its all packed away? as i say i plan to pack this away in a water bottle pouch and i figure the swiss system takes up more room?

 

[Andy BB]

I have the full volcano system in a side-pocket in my rucksack - which includes the - what - litre of water in the bottle, if that helps.

 

[ashes1627]

Thanks for the welcome!
I have seen those hexi stoves online with the canteen cutout plate that goes over the top, i think thats a good idea but its hard to find them & how long do those really last? its suggested to only use a hexi stove only a few times. I have used them before when it was windy with hexi blocks and it was useless.

This one has the cutout plate with it http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Hexi-cookers-...gSupplies_ET&hash=item35abcd4e0a#ht_500wt_723 (No connection to seller, etc)

 

[Sniper]

Hobo stoves are great and you already have the makings you say, so stick with that I would recommend for now. I also would go for the genuine NATO bottle, you won't get any trouble with it. I would also suggest the coke can or penny stove, costs nothing and works pretty well IMHO, but you will still have the option for natural fuel with the hobo. Remember at first, even a used plastic milk bottle will do until you can afford to go for genuine bottle if money is tight..

 

[Rabbitsmacker]

they look like esbits in the footage. i prefer esbit fuel slightly over british hexi but i found it degrades quicker after long storage. but hexi is very common to get, and is generally reliable and hardy. the hexi flame just needs to be protected from the wind is all, just like any flame.

 

[tiger stacker]

IS it just the cutout from the metal hexmine cooker you want?

Hexi is great when you get it free from Q+M

Have a nosy inside the Scout shop at Elmbank street Glasgow they have a lot of good stuff.

 

[WeThePeoplexfbm]

well i use the US set up i find it alot better but i used a esbit stove with it , so i would reckon the us setup

 

[rickyamos]

"Okay thanks, i have a friend in the RAF Regiment actually, maybe i should ask him if he has any spare kit"

You say you have a friend in the regiment, well then thats great, get him to get you the water bottle, while your there ask him to pop down to see the survival equipment bay, if he works on a flying station and get hold of some goodeies from them, button compass, matchless fire starting tin, fishing kit etc.

 

[shortymcsteve]

"Okay thanks, i have a friend in the RAF Regiment actually, maybe i should ask him if he has any spare kit"

You say you have a friend in the regiment, well then thats great, get him to get you the water bottle, while your there ask him to pop down to see the survival equipment bay, if he works on a flying station and get hold of some goodeies from them, button compass, matchless fire starting tin, fishing kit etc.

Sorry for the late response, hope its not against the rules to dig up a month old topic.

I asked my friend in the RAF, he said that if he wants more kit he has to pay for it! He explained that they are made to replace any kit they lose until they get issued with new kit again so its treated the same way so im waiting to find out what it would cost him.. if its cheaper than in a store then il ask him to get me a few.


I have still yet to buy one of these cooking systems, honestly not had the time so far and i can't find a good cooking unit to finish off my hobo stove yet unfortunately.
I think im going to end up with both systems, well.. i plan to buy US canteen + bottle to stick on my belt for quick drinking water + i figure why not have the canteen as it fits on nice under it so it would be used as a back up cup to boil water.
So ive been trying to find out how to tell the genuine US canteens apart from the fakes, anyone have any idea? ive read a lot of reviews on companies selling fakes so i don't want to end up with a cheap Chinese knock off (i see some have funny painted coatings that chip away easy).
If anyone knows any good places to buy them at a good price then that would be really useful.


Also i came across this, just wondering if anyone has used it before? i think its called the swiss M1 stove. I figure for £2.75 its a good deal but then shipping from that store pretty much doubles the price so only any good if you can pick it up locally or your buying more than one item.

 

[beenn]

I have a 58 pattern metal mug (not sure make ect) but i have used it with a hexi stove, hobo stove and just in the embers of a fire- it has worked great everytime!
Hobo stoves are great because you can use them with wood, meths burners, hexi ect so you have lots of options

Also here is a boil test using the swiss fuel stove: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGFj3Pz-Y2w

 

[Shado67]

Shorty,

I have both the BCB Crusader and the US kits. I live in the US and have access to US surplus and its very inexpensive. However, the BCB Crusader kit , which I ordered from the UK, is very expensive. More on that later. I read your posts and thought I would take some pics and give you a comparison of the 2 kits. First let me start off saying that I like them both and use them both!

The 2 kits:

BCB kit in pouch on the right and US kit on the left.

I purchased the complete BCB kit (2 of them) from www.outdoorgb.com. I highly recommend them! The US kit was purchased in separate pieces from local surplus and or online sources.

The US Kit

SS Cup on left, Aluminum Canteen cup stove/stand (1991 date), and GI 1qt water bottle (2002 date).

The Pouch:

This is the US General Purpose/Canteen pouch - MOLLE - in ACU Digital Camo. Its a very tough cordura nylon with 2 side pockets. Pockets are large enough for an alotoids tin or esbit pocket stove.

www.canteenshop.com make a new stainless steel Grilltop stove for use with the GI canteen cup (below).

(above) the canteenshop.com stove compared to US canteen stove stand. US canteen stove/stand is aluminum, very light and can be crushed. The canteenshop stove is heavy stainless steel and has a grill top. This is a very versatile piece of kit.

The US Military does not make nor issue a lid for the US canteen cup. However, www.heavycoverinc.com make 2 lids for the US Canteen Cup - a heavy gauge rubber lid and a new Stainless steel lid.

(above) Water bottle, canteen cup and grilltop stove from canteenshop.com.

(above) Water bottle, canteen cup, grilltop stove, and SS heavy cover lid in canteen pouch.

BCB Crusader Kit

(above) Unpacked. Nestled kit, the much maligned BCB plastic lid for crusader cup, and cup hanger.

(above) Osprey mug on right, crusader cooker in middle and crusader cup on left. Mug is plastic and others are stainless steel - very strong grade materials and construction.

(above) Crusader cup and cooker next to US cup and stove stand.

(above) Crusader cooker and cup next to US cup and grilltop stove.

(above) with lids.

(Above) Crusader cooker compared to Grilltop stove.

(above) US cup on right and Crusader cup on left.

Water Bottles and Cups

The US water bottle is 1 quart and made of a durable hard plastic. The Osprey bottle is one liter and has a wider mouth.

Comparison of cups and stoves:

(above) Right - US cup and GI canteen cup stove/stand. Center - US Cup and grilltop stove. Left - Crusader cup and cooker.

(above) - with lids

(above) with bottles.

Pouches:

Both pouches are well made and strong materials. The Pouch with the BCB kit is the British version of molle. Teh tag on the back has the NATO stock number. The US pouch is MOLLE and has the NSN numbers on back and manufactured by Specialty Defense Systems. The British pouch has to pockets on interior. One on lid with velcro and one on inside front of main compartment.

The BCB kit is a very good system. It is larger and heavier than the US kit. The US kit is good and even better with the grilltop stove and heavy cover lid.

Cost:

BCB Crusader kit
- Crusader Cooker
- Crusader cup
- Osprey Water Bottle
- Osprey Mug for water bottle
- Zulu Belt Pouch (MOLLE)
Shipped to US - $88.00 ($51.00 before shipping)

US Military kit (enhanced with upgrades)
- US issue water bottle - 1qt. - $2.95 used ($5.00 new)
- US issue canteen cup - approx 2+ cups - $6.95 used
- Grilltop Stove from canteenshop.com - $20.00
- Heavy cover SS lid - $20.00
- US Issue MOLLE Canteen pouch ACU new - $10.00
Total Cost - $59.90

US Military Kit - issue surplus
- US issue water bottle - 1qt. - $2.95 used ($5.00 new)
- US issue canteen cup - approx 2+ cups - $6.95 used
- Gissue canteen cup stove/stand - $5.00
- Heavy cover rubber lid - $10.00
- US Issue MOLLE Canteen pouch ACU new - $10.00
Total Cost - $34.90

Some comments about the US kit - my kit is actual US issue gear either used or new, not Chinese knock offs or commercial reproductions. The actual military gear is made of a higher quality. This may be difficult for you to find locally in the UK just as the BCB and UK kit hard to find locally here in the US. The US canteen cup is SS and very strong, nearly indestructible, as is the crusader cup.

The US military no longer issues the canteen cup stove/stand and is no longer manufactured for the military. The stoves are aluminum and stamped with a NSN number and manufacture date. Do not buy the Rothco knock offs. They are cheap, soft, and do not fit the US cup. As they are no longer issued they are becoming more difficult to obtain. I like the grill top stove but it is very expensive. The US cup is very easy to obtain. Again I would suggest not buying the knock offs. Buy the US military issue cup.

The US kit is smaller and fits snug and nestles nicely. The one thing I dont like about the crusader kit is the general bulkiness and loose fit of the components (see pic below). They need to be in the Zulu pouch to hold it all together.

I have several US kits and keep them in my vehicles and back packs for myself and kids. The 2 crusader systems I keep for day hikes.

The US and Crusader pieces are not compatible.

www.heavycoverinc.com is supposed to be making a SS crusader cup lid. I will get a couple of these but again they will be expensive.

If you buy the US kit from US retailers you will probably have significant shipping charges. Shipping for my crusader system from the UK was $37.00. Try and source it local. The BCB crusader system might be the best purchase for your location.

- Mike