Can we talk about Pathfinders school/ David Canterbury.

[BigMonster]

Hi guys.
I have a controversial subject to discuss as it's been bothering me for the last couple of weeks. David Canterbury. I used to look at the guy with interest as he is quite charismatic person and have several interesting ideas. But I have never joined his following as his "raw" bushcrafting wasn't exactly my thing.

My first doubts started after reading his two latest books: "Bushcraft 101" which in my opinion take over 100 pages to tell you that you need a knife and you need a sack. And "Advanced Bushcraft" which have some usefull info on trees and trapping.
But the biggest hit came from Survival Russia when he debunked one of Davids videos on coal bed in the winter:
David Canterburys video:

Survival Russias video:

And the last nail to the coffin came from Pathfinders school themselves. I have commented on the above video that it's not very usefull and it wouldn't work if you had to survive in russia. My comment has been deleted within 12 hours. I understand how much he did to popularise bushcraft and outdoors and I really like some of his seminars especially regarding prepping. But could he be another shade of Bear Grylls? I'm not trying to bash on the guy as he achieved more than I will ever in this field, just trying to have an informed opinion.

 

[John Fenna]

When I tried this I used a system very like the Russian one and it was very effective.
From my experience I would trust the Russian model over DC's version which I cannot see lasting for a whole night...
However the DC version would probably be OK for a short night and certainly takes less effort to prepare.

 

[Jared]

I suspect Siberia's average winter temperature is an extreme temperature for Ohio.

 

[sunndog]

I'v only seen a few of dave canterbury's vids and he's got quite a few ideas i'm keen on

Also I think any video/tv show made for u.s viewers has shades of bear grylls

 

[snappingturtle]

DC's method to me needs less time and tooling no digging frozen soil not that it looked like the other guy was digging frozen soil plus what about time and energy? of each method?

 

[BigMonster]

The above videos are just an example, I don't think spreading some ash and coals over frozen ground/snow would do much for any lenght of time. It just for me there is a lot of quite big holes in his teachings/books.

 

[snappingturtle]

The above videos are just an example, I don't think spreading some ash and coals over frozen ground/snow would do much for any lenght of time. It just for me there is a lot of quite big holes in his teachings/books.

Yer I guess you can pull some moisture out and some latent heat might be left but agree I think you would still leach heat to the ground, never tried it I would prefer to get off the ground.

 

[KenThis]

I don't know enough to speak to the veracity of his teachings, but I do enjoy watching his videos. To me he seems like a nice guy and I enjoy his straightforward delivery. I agree it's very American but it doesn't seem overly phony to me. I think I'd much prefer a few nights out learning from him than Mr Grylls.

The pathfinder school is big business now so I guess it wasn't Dave who deleted your comment, but some over zealous marketing guy who runs his 'web presence'.

 

[Janne]

For me, to high risk to miss a live coal and burn a hole.
I prefer to distance myself from the cold by using branches and my sleeping mat.
Plus the work of finding and chopping wood - rather use them for a warming fire.
Just my 2 pennies..

 

[snappingturtle]

For me, to high risk to miss a live coal and burn a hole.
I prefer to distance myself from the cold by using branches and my sleeping mat.
Plus the work of finding and chopping wood - rather use them for a warming fire.
Just my 2 pennies..

Off the ground and a fire simmering through the night, I'm in accord with that!

 

[snappingturtle]

For me, to high risk to miss a live coal and burn a hole.
I prefer to distance myself from the cold by using branches and my sleeping mat.
Plus the work of finding and chopping wood - rather use them for a warming fire.
Just my 2 pennies..

Off the ground and a fire simmering through the night, I'm in accord with that!

 

[Zingmo]

I have only had one interaction with Mr Canterbury on FB but it was telling. He commented on a picture I had posted, but hadn't noticed an important detail, which meant that his comment was wrong.
I replied and noted the detail he had missed (in a polite conversational way).
Rather than replying something along the lines of "Ah yes. I see that now.", he chose to edit his original comment to read as if he known all along. It made his comment meaningless and made my reply look like gibberish.

I don't know why he did it, but it hints at someone who is afraid of being seen as in any way wrong. I would presume that's why he deleted your comment as well.

Z

 

[Broch]

I'm not really convinced by either. I suspect DC's version would be useful for only a few hours (he does say 5 himself doesn't he?) but that may be enough to get some sleep. The Russian version could only be done with tools if the ground was frozen or anything like around here which is clay & stone.

To be fair DC starts off by saying there are many ways, including digging a pit, but he is purposefully demonstrating a method that needs no tools.

I don't trust anybody, in a competitive market, that starts off by insulting the opposition though. I've not used a fire pit but my own experience is that the ground does take up a lot of heat when the fire's been lit for hours and that heat does last a long time so I suspect DC's version will work to some extent.

As for all the other comments about deleting posts etc. I have found quite a number of 'experts' in the UK and abroad get very touchy when they're questioned. There can be a certain arrogance in the professional side of this pastime . But, at the same time, it appears we amateurs take delight in knocking them too .

Cheers,
Broch

 

[Wayne]

I have never had success with this method. Tried it a few times over the years when I remember and have the inclination. I’m assuming it’s like all skills to employ well it takes experience and a fair modicum of skill.

 

[Broch]

I have never had success with this method. Tried it a few times over the years when I remember and have the inclination. I’m assuming it’s like all skills to employ well it takes experience and a fair modicum of skill.

BTW Wayne, just in case you were wondering, you most definitely do not fall into the group of 'experts' I referred to above

 

[Stew]

I haven't watched the video but I'm guessing this is a fire bed? An early memory of the internet is reading an article by the late Ron Hood over a decade ago giving details on the fire bed - something about 2-4-8 but I can't remember what was what. I may dig it out and have a read then watch the videos and see if it's the same thing.

DC - I've always had the feel that he was more in it for the money.

 

[Insel Affen]

I just can't bring myself to watch DC. It was because of my first exposure to him on "Dual Survival". I thought some of the things he was saying were a bit off - just not sitting right. But let it slip as he was Special Forces with tons of experience, however much the spidey senses told me otherwise.

Then after it came out that although he was ex-military, his CV was a little overegged (Bloating as the military call it). After that, I just can't bring myself to watch him.

 

[Joe tahkahikew]

I have just gotten Nehiyawak, the oldest speaker in our winter village to look at these and he's never seen them up here, nor used them nor heard any other groups ever use these methods of keeping warm. We both thought either method would take too much effort and too long to make although we have used similar methods for cooking meat in the past.

 

[petrochemicals]

I cqn only think that both methods are us3less, just the siberian one being less dangerous, if i am understanding them correctly.

Using just the soil, To get a good seasoned small fire place ie one where the soil is good and hot and dry, takes at least 6 hours, but i suppos3 a bigger fire can get ot done faster, but that means alot of wood and about 2 hours of fast burning wood. I can see it being hot enaough if you have the time and resourses. Only problem then is how hot the ground will be to begin with, which os hot enough to cook you.

The soil on top method again you would have to burn for a while to get tit hot enough, alot of wood for at least 2, but the soil on top is just going to kill the heat, and that i cant see lasting the night, youll be cold by dawn.

Point being is it starts at one temperature and cools, so cook to begin with or freeze at the end with both methods, russian one being less dangerous. Youd be better off spending your time on some good insulation and a nice fire.

 

[Fadcode]

Looking at both of these useless methods, you would think someone would be mad enough to invent under floor heating.
For me the DC is the easiest and more practical, and it is designed to be used when caught out without a shelter in what could be described as an emergency, and any heat in that situation is good, no matter how short it may last.
I felt the russian one was taking too long, and in fact because of this I would have built a shelter, with a fire screen as there was an abundance of wood around, this i feel would have taken far less time and effort.
But again the heat in both these scenarios could be a life saver, so they are good to know.