Can anybody help me identify this sword please?

[ibeef]

Hi all,

This may be a shot in the dark, maybe worth a try though.

My step dad has asked me to help him identify an old sword he has. He's had it years and always wanted to know more about it, he got it off an elderly fellow who used to use it to chop ribs with it.

All I can tell from the blade is it has "CSA" and "1861" on the start of the blade. It also has a Japanese symbol on the sheath.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[mountainm]

Try on British blades. ..

 

[santaman2000]

CSA was the Confederate States of America during the Civil war. 1861 was the year the war started.

Very few real military blades from the Confederacy were actually marked though. No idea if it's real or an old fake to be honest or something else altogether. Judging from the short length and heft I'd guess if it's real (and also truly a Confederate sword) it's probably either an artillery sword or a naval sword. All just educated guesses though.

 

[Toddy]

It's got a sort of cutlass-y look to it.

M

 

[bambodoggy]

It's got a sort of cutlass-y look to it.

I see you're quite the technical expert with that "cutlass-y" description Mary lol can't we get you on the antiques roadshow

 

[NS40]

Looks very much like a Chinese Buttererfly Sword (not to be confused with a Filipino Butterfly Knife)...which would also explain the Chinese script on the sheath. A traditional Chinese weapon that's generally used in pairs and still used in a lot of traditional Chinese martial arts

The link below shows a very similar type...couldn't paste the image for some strange reason though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_sword#mediaviewer/File:Modell_Design_LLC_Stabber_Butterfly_Swords.JPG

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_sword

 

[santaman2000]

It's got a sort of cutlass-y look to it.

M

I see you're quite the technical expert with that "cutlass-y" description Mary lol can't we get you on the antiques roadshow

Hence my comment "naval." LOL

 

[santaman2000]

Looks very much like a Chinese Buttererfly Sword (not to be confused with a Filipino Butterfly Knife)...which would also explain the Chinese script on the sheath. A traditional Chinese weapon that's generally used in pairs and still used in a lot of traditional Chinese martial arts

The link below shows a very similar type...couldn't paste the image for some strange reason though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butter...odell_Design_LLC_Stabber_Butterfly_Swords.JPG

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_sword

Hadn't thought of that. Absolutely true though.

 

[Toddy]

I see you're quite the technical expert with that "cutlass-y" description Mary lol can't we get you on the antiques roadshow

I don't even pretend to be technical when it comes to sharps. I just use them

It still looks like a cutlass, sort of, to me.

I had an interesting childhood, my Grandpa was the biggest hoarder of metal stuff in the country. From lathes to watchmaking, from bayonets to cutlass'….playing sodjers was kind of interesting when your bother insisted on using a French officer's cavalry sword as his weapon of choice (only because he wasn't allowed to use a 'real' gun. He carved a neat gouge out of our Uncle's pith helmet with that one (Gurkha Highlander's MO)
Cutlass's though, they've got a good heft to them; easy to swing, iimmc.

M

 

[ibeef]

Wow! Thanks for all the replies. I've put it on a few forums including BB, the consensus on BB was a southern military artillery sword of some sort.

It does look very much like the chinese butterfly swords! It's strange because no matter how hard I look I can't find an exact match for the blade shape. The handle is very similar to the American and the Chinese swords.

The closest thing I have found is this http://www.flickriver.com/photos/unforth/3412972357/

If it is real, could it be worth a lot of money?

 

[palace]

Wow! Thanks for all the replies. I've put it on a few forums including BB, the consensus on BB was a southern military artillery sword of some sort.

It does look very much like the chinese butterfly swords! It's strange because no matter how hard I look I can't find an exact match for the blade shape. The handle is very similar to the American and the Chinese swords.

The closest thing I have found is this http://www.flickriver.com/photos/unforth/3412972357/

If it is real, could it be worth a lot of money?

If it is the real deal American Civil War particularly confederate stuff is highly collected in the USA could be worth a very large sum; certainly worth exploring State side.

 

[ibeef]

If it is the real deal American Civil War particularly confederate stuff is highly collected in the USA could be worth a very large sum; certainly worth exploring State side.

I've since posted this on blade forums, a lot of the guys on there are very skeptical this is real. Maybe a converted chinese butterfly sword. I think I may take it to a shop I've found in Leicester though to see if it's genuine. I imagine finding someone who's clued up with confederate memorabilia in the UK will be a challenge though.

 

[Toddy]

Against it being of any significant financial value…..there are thousands of swords still extant from that time, and in the condition that it's in, it's hardly pristine, proper restoration can cost as much as the item, and there's always the issue of finding someone who actually wants to buy it. Valuation for replacement for insurance purpose is very hyped as compared to the reality of auction….usually.

Best of luck with it though

M

 

[British Red]

Try Michael D Long in Nottingham for information (phone first). They know a huge amount about militaria and especially swords

 

[santaman2000]

Wow! Thanks for all the replies. I've put it on a few forums including BB, the consensus on BB was a southern military artillery sword of some sort........If it is real, could it be worth a lot of money?

If it's real, it'd be worth quite a bit. That Asian marking isn't a good thing though.

Against it being of any significant financial value…..there are thousands of swords still extant from that time......

As you say, it's condition will degrade the value, but no, there are very, very, very few surviving Confederate swords. Remember the war (and thus the very existence of the CSA) only lasted 4 years and the Confederacy lost. There are however a plethora of fakes.

For a pristine one with provenance the value could easily reach into the 5 digit value. Indeed, any Confederate artifacts in good condition with provenance are very valuable.

 

[woof]

Try Michael D Long in Nottingham for information (phone first). They know a huge amount about militaria and especially swords

Are they still in business ?, they seem to have been about forever. I recall him not being well a few years ago & his daughter taking over the business.

Rob

 

[Toddy]

If it's real, it'd be worth quite a bit. That Asian marking isn't a good thing though.




As you say, it's condition will degrade the value, but no, there are very, very, very few surviving Confederate swords. Remember the war (and thus the very existence of the CSA) only lasted 4 years and the Confederacy lost. There are however a plethora of fakes.

For a pristine one with provenance the value could easily reach into the 5 digit value. Indeed, any Confederate artifacts in good condition with provenance are very valuable.

Truly ? I admit I'm surprised, but then I grew up in the UK where every sword of the Empire ended up at one time or another. There was an 'army suplus' shop in Glasgow that I swear had a boar spear for sale We got rather jaded about old swords of anything more recent than the '45.

M

 

[ibeef]

Once again thanks for all the replies.

@british red - I will try to call thay shop, thanks.

@all - All the information is very useful. I don't think he's interested in selling, just wants to know it's worth. He loves the sword but always wondered about its origins. I would be amazed if it was real given how rare they are, but I'm quite excited to find out.

He's actually got a collection of about 30 I think. Some real and some fakes. It's all quite interesting tbh.

Thanks again guys.

 

[British Red]

Are they still in business ?, they seem to have been about forever. I recall him not being well a few years ago & his daughter taking over the business.

Rob

The firm is certainly


https://www.michaeldlong.com/Catalogue/Swords.aspx

 

[brambles]

It looks like a European made Chinese Butterfly sword to me, one made for export to China - there appear to be kanji marked on the underside of the guard as well as on the sheath, and the blade stamping looks more like CSE than CSA - why would an A have a horizontal line on the bottom of the letter? China was suffering major problems with the Taiping Rebellion then, a war that makes the US Civil War look like a wee skirmish!