Bushcraft or Survival? The[b] Question[/b]

[sargey]

BUT could the other guy have made a decent pot hanger?

yeah...

could've...

if i'd wanted too... :roll:

as it happened i didn't need a proper pot hanger, my mate made a cracking good'un, so i used his!

the other main difference was one was knocked up for a quick brew between lectures at the gathering, the other was constructed as part of a leisurely evening meal.

cheers, and.

 

[Nod]

I was talking to Jonny Crocket of Survival School the other day and he said something quite pertinent. I cannot remember his exact words but it has left me with the thoughts that When we are in a situation we chose to be we are practicing bushcraft, when we are in a situation forced on us we are practicing survival.......

I think Jonny Crocket has sort of hit the nail on the head. One you do because you enjoy it and want to learn from it, the other you do because you have to.

You could say that with bushcraft you know how long you will be there for and can plan accordingly, with Survival in it's truest sense,you don't. They are basically using very similar skills and drawing on the same knowledge. But is there a point where Survival becomes Bushcraft?....once you have put into practice the skills you have learnt to initially maintain your life, find food and water supplies etc...... when you then proceed to preserve those resources, make the existence more comfortable, and you continue to learn from your surroundings and adapt to become part of them for the duration of your stay?

Dunno, sounds a bit deep doesn't it? :shock:

 

[Viking]

Survival or Bushcraft, both comes from primitive technology. Gather food and water, buildning shelter, making tools. For a couple of 100 years ago there were no chainsaws and people used axes a lot. Back then you had to know have to use tools like an axe and knife. They also had to know what you could use to make tools and to find food. Back then you didn´t go buy a knew knife you made one.
Today people grow up in big cities and never spend time in nature, never see what it can give you. Thats why we today have something called survival, it´s alla about old technique´s. Because people do not longer know how to find food or water or how to build a simple shelter or maybe make simple fire. These old techiques has to be learned. But survival is also a lot about the will to survive.

Bushcraft on the other is something that make´s some people live thru the day. They still live as they have don for 100´s of years. Even here in sweden poeple in lapland still makes many of their tools and clothes and still hunt like they always has. Then there´s people like me who enjoy´s being out in the woods using old techniques, make a fire or a shelter or carve a spoon. It´s also a way of life, living close to nature see how the seasons change it, see the animals that live in it.

But to sum it all up both survival and bushcraft is all about primitive technoligies. How to live with nature and not using modern technology.

 

[PC2K]

mine deffinition is survival=survival, things that you do to survive in a survival situation. training for it is survival training in mine definition, some kind of insurance.
bushcraft is almost the same, but instead of nessacity or "just in case" we do it for fun ! that also make's you go deeper, like the rest already said.

 

[bushwacker bob]

To chuck an irrelevant log on the fire, how did 'bushcraft' get its name? When I was a kid my father, who taught me the basics,refered to the subject as "fieldcraft" He was at one time the Big game hunter for the Tanganika railway construction and responsible for feeding 2000 workers with what he could hunt or gather locally.The subject is still called fieldcraft by the scouts association.

 

[Ed]

Have a look at the thread here http://www.bushcraftuk.co.uk/community/viewtopic.php?t=19
That should answer your question.

Ed

 

[Gary]

Bob,

I have asked the same question. In south africa, in the army and the large hunting schools, to name a few, it is normally termed Fieldcraft - Bushcraft seems to have become popular in recent years with people drawing heavily upon American influences. This is to be expected as suppose as the leaders in the industry were all trained in america or canada initially and lets no forget the power of the written word - most books on the subject come across the pond.

Being in the process of setting up my own business I had considered using Fieldcraft in the name but unfortunately like the hamburger, obessity and sueing Bushcraft has become the norm and so I too will use the term.

 

[Hoodoo]

Bushcraft seems to have become popular in recent years with people drawing heavily upon American influences.

Maybe this terms is common in Canada, I dunno. I know the term is rarely used in the "lower 48" states and other than Kochanski, I don't know any writers in NA who use this term with any regularity.

 

[Gary]

Your right HOODOO - my mistake, he term is used a lot in Canada and is very common in Alaska hence my leaning to american influences (sorry to any canadian's for the generalisation.)

Incidentially what would be the common term in the 'lower 48's then?

 

[Hoodoo]

Until recently, woodcraft was the most popular term and folks who were good at it were often called woodsmen (or woodswomen). The name probably more common today is outdoorsman, which is more generic and may be applied to folks skilled in the old woodcraft ways or they are known as avid hunters, fishermen, or canoeists, etc. Sometimes the term "sportsmen" is used specifically for the hook and bullet crowd. The modern backpackers are so techno-gear driven that they have little linkage to the old style of camping and woodcraft and are just referred to as backpackers or more recently trekkers.

If you look at some of the classic books, you can see what I mean:

Woodcraft by Nessmuk
Camping and Woodcraft by Kephart
The Book of Woodcraft by Ernest Thompson Seton

 

[mac]

Gary's original post asked:

Whats is the difference between Bushcraft and Survival and which is better?

the dictionary states BUSH (in part) as:
woodland,uncleared country,backwoods

and CRAFT as:
skill,ability,manual ability

SURVIVE as:
come alive through

I think therefore, that the term survival,from a purely outdoors situation without other complications such as a plane crash, or severe injuries etc, is to understand and learn about how to overcome mother nature's elements when the situation is against you.The ability to build a snow shelter when one is caught out suddenly by a blizzard for example, springs to mind.Once the worse is over the skill of 'bushcraft' comes into it's own.
To take part of HOODOO's comment:
The name probably more common today is outdoorsman, which is more generic and may be applied to folks skilled in the old woodcraft ways or they are known as avid hunters, fishermen, or canoeists, etc.:

Outdoors man,being generic would probably be a good term to use if it could be used to solely define someone who is at one with nature and the elements.Even someone who lives in a city for example, but is capable of living and surviving in the wild using no modern equipment.

To answer gary's question therefore "which is better?" I would say Bushcraft, as it more closely associates the aims and abilities of this group.

However, what about the introduction of a new term to describe someone learning to or already capable of being at one with nature and the elements?

 

[sargey]

it seems almost an odd question to ask, a bit of a moot point. but as a couple of people have pointed out, there seem to be a few negative connotations associated with "survival". perhaps a few folks would like to see themselves and/or the "bushcraft" movement as it might be, disassociated with the "survivalist" ideal. :shock: but where does one end and the other begin?

to my mind, "survival" or survivalism is a much bigger field than simply wilderness skills, surviving a shipwreck or plane crash. the other term synonymous with this is preparedness, aren't the boy scouts supposed to "be prepared"? yes you've got the camo clad "grab your guns and run for the hills" brand of survivalism. try a search for frugal squirrel and you'll find 'em. then you've got the self sufficient crowd, homesteaders and the like. remember that TV program the good life? then you move down the scale to simply having a bugout bag or a bag with a change of clothes and a few insurance documents. maybe some people just have a few candles, some stored water and a few extra tins of food round the place. perhaps you could include the combatives crowd, those concerned with surviving the commute to work, through the tube stations and poorly lit car parks of the big cities.

it boils down to real world survival, and fantasy survival. perhaps there is a little grain in all of us that would like to be shipwrecked on a desert island, with just enough kit to make it challenging, but not too austere. for real world survival, we'd be better off doing a first aid course and a self defense course, and make sure the spare tyre in the car is ok, along with a torch and a first aid kit an so on.

so it seems to me that bushcraft is just one small aspect of survival. it's a great hobby, whatever you call it. survival, bushcraft, fieldcaft, wilderness skills, earth skills.... i don't think you can say that one is less or more.

just my .02 as they say.

btw gary, bearclaw bushcraft sounds cool.

cheers, and.

 

[Gary]

Cheers sargey - still not sure if I'll stay with that name though. Especailly as one of the areas I want to cover is SURVIVAL KITS.

And Mac - what, pray tell, would be this new term?

 

[mac]

God only knows!
Um!..now there's a thought! maybe he does know! !.........."look what i have created",he may say.

I know!......How about earthman! :rolmao:

 

[Viking]

Sea survival, urban survival, rescue beacons and so on is survival. It´s something that make you survive a situation like a plane crash. Bushcraft is about being in the woods and carving spoons and buildning shelters, but then wilderness survival is the same thing as bushcraft. So then bushcraft should be a part of survial.

The diffrense is were are you gonna survive?


Just my little thougts...

 

[Andy]

i dont care what i call it. i just do what i like. though i never feel that suvival includes making all these spoons

 

[larry the spark]

I moved this from another thread so apologies for reviving an old one but it might of interest.

I guess the whole survival/bushcraft can be looked at both ways. There is a school of thought, endorsed by Ray Mears whose interpretation of Bushcraft is not only for temperate woodland type areas, but rather a more global appraoch to learning indiginous skills. I read an interview with Ray some time ago of which I have copied and pasted a small portion below.


'Ray Mears:
If you like, the shorthand of bushcraft - ‘survival’ - is a foundation on which we grow. We build on top of that. Bushcraft is a study that has many disciplines within it. If you imagine a wheel, the hub of the wheel is the survival skills - the life support, if you like - but coming off that are many spokes. One spoke may be botany, another may be mycology, another may be anthropology, to use our terms for them. I’m very anti pigeon-holing it, using these terms that already exist. I think that if someone’s interested in anthropology, they don’t necessarily need to follow existing doctrines in their interest. It’s important for them to find their own. I’ve very often worked with anthropologists who have missed obvious things because they don’t know the bushcraft of their home country. Because they haven’t learnt the bushcraft of Britain, when they go overseas it’s difficult for them to understand what is unique about what they’re seeing. They’re sometimes wowed by something that could be seen in a coppice wood in Hampshire. The unified hub of the wheel is a love and interest in nature, because the wheel won’t run without the hub, and nature supports everything. It locks everything together. The individual who wants to travel using bushcraft skills must take an interest in preserving things that they are relying upon. So, you understand, nature and bushcraft go together.'

The whole interview can be found here

http://www.travelleronline.com/travel_talk/chatraymears.shtml

 

[boaty]

i dont care what i call it. i just do what i like. though i never feel that suvival includes making all these spoons

:biggthump :You_Rock_

It seems to me that there are bushcraft skills, some of which are also survival skills and there are survival skills, some of which are bushcraft skills. In other words, the set of skills overlap (intersect?) yet are distinct.

Which is no surprise given that their purposes are different

 

[Justin Time]

Interesting snippet from that Ray Mears interview:

"You don’t have a badge that says ‘bushcraft’ "...........

Justin

 

[Adi007]

He hasn't seen the badge being designed here! :-D

Interesting snippet from that Ray Mears interview:

"You don’t have a badge that says ‘bushcraft’ "...........

Justin