Bushcraft Fatalism

[BushEd]

Has anybody else noticed the irreverant fatalism which so many practitioners of bushcraft on here prescribe to this 'discipline.'

By this i mean, the underlying assumption that while bushcraft is fun, most of it is impossible now (e.g. living off the land). I say most, as surely most bushcraft is comprised of indigenous knowledge?

It seems more and more that bushcraft is being defined in the tradition of Victorian Camping. Everybody is after canvas and leather bags, cast iron implements, rifles...taking the grand tour into the other of the wilderness, before returning to civility.

Bushcraft is relegated from a way of living to a vacation past-time; and though i recognise for many this is what it is, due to jobs, families, commitments etc. etc. - it is not totally. But defining it so helps diminish the idea of Bushcraft, which i always thought of as creative and problem solving, replacing it with this negative fatalism

"oh you can't do that anymore"
"good luck trying to do that"
"lets be realistic..."

Where realistic means pessimistic, and positivity means romanticism.

If you honestly believe that most of bushcraft is impossible in this day and age, then go lament its loss and attempt to rekindle it, or else, leave those who are trying to do so in the warm embrace of optimism which is at the core of bushcraft.

Maybe if we stopped being so negative we'd find life yet in this vacationary ideal.

I shall await to be rebuked for my nonsense

 

[Toddy]

Supper giving you heartburn ?

cheers,
Toddy

 

[bushcraft_lad]

Mate if i may say well said to the above i was thinking the exact same thing today most fall into "the gear trap" buying all the top of the range gear i.e maxpedition, newest Molle pouch's ect ... Isn't bushcraft about being self-sufficient,living off the land and such? if so why do you need the newest kit,and to doubt other people's idea's

Many people on youtube and the likes have now fallen into this so called gear trap to be honest i think word bushcraft is more accurately used to describe the type's of people who can not afford this top of the range kit but yet make there own billy's spoon's ect..

Anyway who need's gear after all isn't bushcraft 80% mental and 20% physical ?

anyway well said mate

regards,Jordan

 

[British Red]

Aaah but since we are going to get philosophical, allow me to pose the Bushcraft connundrum

1 It is "important to preserve primitive skills"

2 Any proposition that primitive skills may ever be needed must be rejected because that is "survivalism"

Extrapolation:

Only those skills that will never have any practical application should be preserved.

In the words of the fantastic four "flame on"

Red

 

[Hoodoo]

leave those who are trying to do so in the warm embrace of optimism which is at the core of bushcraft.

Like we used to say back in the 60s, "Do yer thang man!"



Ain't no one here holding you back so please don't ask folks to hold your hand either. But I always think it's ironic that this "appeal to bushcraft fundamentalism" is delivered via the high tech world of the internet. If ya really want to go "into the wild" a good place to start is to unplug your computer.

 

[johnboy]

Define what 'bushcraft' is...

Is it 'the knowledge of indigenous peoples' or is that just part of it??

 

[BushEd]

all good points, and i'm not saying i dont engage in fatalism too its as much a go at myself as anyone else.

I think it is more than just knowledge of indigenous peoples, but it is centred around that way of life - it is founded in the hunter gather lifestyle, even if its applications traverse many others.

I have been reading a lot of anthropology recently, so that might explain my bias lol!!! Darn impressionable mind...

 

[BushEd]

2 Any proposition that primitive skills may ever be needed must be rejected because that is "survivalism"

Maybe its not that they'd be needed, but that they'd be chosen...

 

[johnboy]

I think it is more than just knowledge of indigenous peoples, but it is centred around that way of life - it is founded in the hunter gather lifestyle, even if its applications traverse many others.

Is it...? TBH I thought "Bushcraft" was a catch all tag that describes a very broard 'church' of outdoor related activities and pursuits...

 

[Trunks]

Bushed,

There is always someone at hand on this forum to point out any legal pitfalls to whatever activity someone proposes. I'm glad of that, i want to know ALL the facts, before choosing to ignore some of them .

I have been encouraged by more people on this forum than i can remember, to just get out & have a go. As a result have camped over in places where, perhaps, i shouldn't have. I've woken up seeing the sun rise over a reservoir at the foot of my hammock - and for that memory alone i am eternally grateful.

 

[BushEd]

Is it...? TBH I thought "Bushcraft" was a catch all tag that describes a very broard 'church' of outdoor related activities and pursuits...

True enough. I think the main corpus of knowledge is created with a mind to living outdoors, which is something those people were particularly versed in. I didn't mean to sound like a bushcraft Nazi though, there are just things which i think aren't Bushcraft; and for me, the main one is a negative, insular perspective...

Trunks....yeah man, thats what its all about i've had similar moments and felt the same emotions.

 

[Chinkapin]

When our ancestors gave up being hunter-gathers for farming, surviving became more of an individual thing, as opposed to a group effort. Different people in different lands worked out various schemes of how farming should be done, and it modified and changed through the ages.

As late as the early part of the 20th century, people in America (for one example) had figured out that if you had about 40 acres, 1 horse, 1 cow, some pigs and some chickens, and a large garden you could survive. You would have very little money, but you would never go hungry.

Anyone who thinks that he / she, alone, could "survive" by living off of the land, is, in my opinion self-delusional.

As I see it, only a small farm as I have described above will suffice to allow you to "survive."

"Bushcraft" is merely a set of skills that have accumulated through time. Some of those skills go back to when we were all hunter-gatherers, others to the time when we were, for the most part, farmers, some to the relatively short "mountain man," era. Still others such as having and using a gps to the era we live in now. I don't see a gps as being fundamentally different that an iron pot. They are both tools, period.

I'm reminded of the old joke that says:"Good health is best defined as dying at the slowest possible rate." What I mean by this is; all the bushcraft skills in the world, will not allow you to "live off the fat of the land." Turns out the land is actually rather emaciated. Yes, there is no doubt they will make your life easier, warmer, and more comfortable. They will slow down and forestall the inevitable. But, you are simply not going to have enough to eat.

Read the responses to AdiOO7 thread"Hypothetical Question - Living off the land." Particularly the post about how much food it takes to survive. Very enlightening.

I love all of these skills and would like to learn as many as is reasonably possible. I feel certain they could save my life in a short-term emergency situation, but not for the next 20 years. Pessimist? no. Realist? yes.

Consider all the recent armed conflicts around the world in recent history. It doesn't matter if you think of the Balkans or Sub-Saharan Africa, tens of thousands of refugees are created and They cannot and do not live off the land. They are herded into refugee camps and housed, clothed and fed by relief agencies, without which they would certainly die. Living off the land is not possible for almost all individuals. (yes there is the occasional Robinson Crusoe.) It becomes totally impossible when the numbers get large.

To get back to the original post, This is not pessimism, and it does not apply to bushcraft as such. What it does apply to is the idea of living off of the land in some idealistic and solitary hunter-gatherer style. You will not become a "noble savage," but rather a lonesome, cold, wet, miserable, hungry and soon to be sick individual. As far as bushcraft skills, most, it not all of them can be practiced today. Perhaps not all, in all areas, but most in most areas. Some may have little or no application to your day to day existence, but that doesn't mean they are not fun, and worthwhile.

 

[Melonfish]

Supper giving you heartburn ?

cheers,
Toddy

I'm with toddy on this one, where on earth did all that come from?

besides isn't this thread just another thinly disguised "what is bushcraft" or at least about to descend into such?
okenest:

 

[Tengu]

Yeeessss.

I think we should be going out and teaching all those ignorant natives how to do it better.

 

[zarkwon]

Mate if i may say well said to the above i was thinking the exact same thing today most fall into "the gear trap" buying all the top of the range gear i.e maxpedition, newest Molle pouch's ect ... Isn't bushcraft about being self-sufficient,living off the land and such? if so why do you need the newest kit,and to doubt other people's idea's

Many people on youtube and the likes have now fallen into this so called gear trap to be honest i think word bushcraft is more accurately used to describe the type's of people who can not afford this top of the range kit but yet make there own billy's spoon's ect..

Anyway who need's gear after all isn't bushcraft 80% mental and 20% physical ?

anyway well said mate

regards,Jordan

Well said? You've just done exactly what he was condemning. Why do you feel the need to belittle people for buying kit they want with their own money. Bushcraft snobbery is boring. If you find your virtue in making your own kit and being frugal then that is fine but others find enjoyment in other aspects of Bushcraft and in my opinion can still call it such.

 

[BorderReiver]

Is it...? TBH I thought "Bushcraft" was a catch all tag that describes a very broard 'church' of outdoor related activities and pursuits...

That'll do for me.

 

[zorro]

I don't post much here, but I do enjoy visiting, there are some very interesting and informative threads.

I can't help but notice there is a lot of navel gazing of late, lots of folk seem to be on a downer.

Is it a seasonal thing?

 

[BorderReiver]

I don't post much here, but I do enjoy visiting, there are some very interesting and informative threads.

I can't help but notice there is a lot of navel gazing of late, lots of folk seem to be on a downer.

Is it a seasonal thing?

All that nice snow has gone, folks are bound to feel a bit down.

 

[zorro]

All that nice snow has gone, folks are bound to feel a bit down.

That'll be it then..............

 

[helixpteron]

Its what ever you want it to be...