Macho, ill thought out advice that can just as well get you maimed, killed or arrested. That is really going to help. Life is rarely a Bourne movie.
Bullying
- Thread starter markie*mark0
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Macho, ill thought out advice that can just as well get you maimed, killed or arrested. That is really going to help. Life is rarely a Bourne movie.
That depends on how that boy was raised. All the evidence in this case points towards a twelve year old with the inability to see what his action are doing. Or one that does not care. Cognitive skills at that age are highly variable. If everyone had a moral conscience at twelve, then bullying, violence and most crime would be nonexistent.
Agreed that not everyone has a moral "conscience" by 12. However in my experience they have as much of one as they are likely to ever get; unless they get very serious help that is not so widespread in our society. It's available, but not the normal path as yet. Rather age 11 or 12 is when most of the more delinquent ones join gangs (and I mean real gangs such as MS13 which are more like an extremely violent modern version of the Mafia)
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you've probably already been on-line and looked at this stuff already but here's a link to Bullying UK. Most of the advice reflects what most people are saying on here, there are a few links to other websites on it and a few videos, you just have to kind of search about on it a bit.
http://www.bullying.co.uk/advice/essential-guide-parents
http://www.bullying.co.uk/advice/essential-guide-parents
Just to give some additional context to the idea of squaring up to the parents...
...the father of one of the kids that was part of the gang that attacked my 3 was arrested for a local murder a few months back. He's been charged with shooting someone in the face in broad daylight in the middle of a busy street. He's also suspected of a number of arson attacks including 3 separate ones against one of my neighbours.
As much as anyone may think that it's a quick and easy solution, there are a lot of possible outcomes to taking the direct approach but few if any that would end well. Lets leave this sort of stuff for the action movies where scriptwriters control the outcome.
...the father of one of the kids that was part of the gang that attacked my 3 was arrested for a local murder a few months back. He's been charged with shooting someone in the face in broad daylight in the middle of a busy street. He's also suspected of a number of arson attacks including 3 separate ones against one of my neighbours.
As much as anyone may think that it's a quick and easy solution, there are a lot of possible outcomes to taking the direct approach but few if any that would end well. Lets leave this sort of stuff for the action movies where scriptwriters control the outcome.
Not necessarily. Some people appraise a situation, weigh up the information, decide what the morally right course of action is - then wilfully and calculatingly do the exact opposite.
Despite some modern ideas to the contrary there is such a thing as a bad person.
Although that said, I don't know if there is such a thing as a bad 12 year old. Badly raised certainly, but I wonder if any wickedness they display is yet their own or if it is still "borrowed" wickedness they received from someone else.
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I've been in similar situations when i was a kid with older/bigger lads bullying me, and in normal circumstances, in a fair fight, I wouldn't have been able to stand up for myself against them. However, a school yard fight is never fair so I caught the 2 main instigators unaware on separate occasions and smacked them about. If you kick a lad in the gentlemen's vegetables they won't be able to defend themselves, bullies feed off fear and weak responses to their actions, and I've never known a teacher/ headteacher to actually sort out a bullying problem.
I don't know the solution to bullying. Any course of action brings with it problems. "Telling Teacher" is certainly the correct approach when bullying crosses over into a criminal matter, but even then there is a risk the authorities will do nothing or indeed make it worse. My wife attended a private school and whenver abuse or bullying was reported they covered it up and encouraged the children to stay silent rather than deal with it.
In the case of not-quite-criminal bullying it is more complex. A degree of self-reliance is needed for a child to function - someone who runs to an authority figure over everything will not go very far in life. It is not hard to acquire a reputation as a sneak.
Picking a fight might work, but then again it might not. They could lose and be terrified, or worse they could win and find they have acquired a taste for beating other kids up.
My oldest is 7 and we have not yet really had to deal with this sort of thing. Which is good because I really don't have the answers to this one.
I was bullied at school and my solution was not a very good one: I endured it.
In the case of not-quite-criminal bullying it is more complex. A degree of self-reliance is needed for a child to function - someone who runs to an authority figure over everything will not go very far in life. It is not hard to acquire a reputation as a sneak.
Picking a fight might work, but then again it might not. They could lose and be terrified, or worse they could win and find they have acquired a taste for beating other kids up.
My oldest is 7 and we have not yet really had to deal with this sort of thing. Which is good because I really don't have the answers to this one.
I was bullied at school and my solution was not a very good one: I endured it.
It's pretty pointless putting bullies into one type of personality, there are different types of bullying from many different personality type.
If you 42 or over like me then things were drastically different when we were at school.
From what i remember the few times i was bullied the bully walked around like the king of the roost, many times he/she got there by being a particularly proficient or tough fighter.
In my case i remember that i figured out that if i threatened him in the right way and let it soak, then letting him think of the consequences of loosing to me would put him off.
It did for a while but then it wore off, in the end it did come to a fight, he did win easily, but as soon as my wounds healed i went back at him again, and again, and again.
It was obvious that he was a more proficient fighter than me, but in the end the fact that i kept not taking his **** seemed to buy me some respect in his eyes.
I really don't know what advice i'd offer my kids if they started getting bullied.
I think it's a dangerous precedent to set, to allow them to believe "the system" will look out for them, and trust in it as in my experience in life that is clearly not the case.
I would monitor it closely as it's easy for bullying to become a life dominating thing for a kid, but i would also leave them a bit of a loose leash to see if they can sort it out for themselves.
If not and if i started noticing it really getting to them then i think the advice offered above is great.
For me personally though i try to allow my kids a bit of manoeuvre room to make mild mistakes in the hope that:
a/ They learn from those mistakes
b/ That they learn the consequences of the mistakes and how to look out for themselves after
I do believe that if they feel they have a problem that's bigger than them, that they'll come to us for advice and help though, it's just that little bit of trust i leeway i really try hard to give them.
If you 42 or over like me then things were drastically different when we were at school.
From what i remember the few times i was bullied the bully walked around like the king of the roost, many times he/she got there by being a particularly proficient or tough fighter.
In my case i remember that i figured out that if i threatened him in the right way and let it soak, then letting him think of the consequences of loosing to me would put him off.
It did for a while but then it wore off, in the end it did come to a fight, he did win easily, but as soon as my wounds healed i went back at him again, and again, and again.
It was obvious that he was a more proficient fighter than me, but in the end the fact that i kept not taking his **** seemed to buy me some respect in his eyes.
I really don't know what advice i'd offer my kids if they started getting bullied.
I think it's a dangerous precedent to set, to allow them to believe "the system" will look out for them, and trust in it as in my experience in life that is clearly not the case.
I would monitor it closely as it's easy for bullying to become a life dominating thing for a kid, but i would also leave them a bit of a loose leash to see if they can sort it out for themselves.
If not and if i started noticing it really getting to them then i think the advice offered above is great.
For me personally though i try to allow my kids a bit of manoeuvre room to make mild mistakes in the hope that:
a/ They learn from those mistakes
b/ That they learn the consequences of the mistakes and how to look out for themselves after
I do believe that if they feel they have a problem that's bigger than them, that they'll come to us for advice and help though, it's just that little bit of trust i leeway i really try hard to give them.
Can you tell me how many incidents you have been involved in where a serious bullying complaint has been brought about?
I have been involved with many bullying complaints at a primary and senior school level and also now at University level. In all cases the bullying was stemmed and the outcome was positive for the person previously being bullied. Each case has to be judged and handled differently. The solution I listed here is appropriate to this case only. Based upon the actions already taken by the parent. Many people here are listing what they did. But none of the scenarios are the same as the case listed here. You can't treat all diseases with the same medicine. You will just make things worse more than making them better.
My son has been bullied a little at school he is 6, last year there were 'bigger kids' not being very nice to him, mainly verbal/ psycological/ stealing, taking & hiding possessions but on a few occasions physical bullying.
We first went with the approach of keep away from them - but that didn't work. Luckly there was an even bigger kid who liked my son and she stood up for him and told the bullies to back off, that worked for abit. Still it carried on and we talked to the Headmaster - I never actually went to see him but did talk on the phone on a couple of occasions, like other advice have some record of incidents time places dates etc and a brief outline of what happened so you know what your talking about. Be calm authoritive etc. We were lucky because the Headmaster was very understanding and seemed to be quite proactive about finding a solution, he got a description from my son [which seemed to point to some kids he 'knew' about] I have know idea what he did but the bullying stopped. The Headmaster is a Headmaster for a reason and there must have been some 'system' he could put in place to sort this out.
I know nothing about the bullies - their names, ages, where they live, what their parents are like etc and in my view I shouldn't HAVE to know - in my case the Headteacher did a brilliant job.
It's no good telling your kid to 'sort it out' themselves, he won't be equipped to deal with it and more than likely will just get him hurt. Altough being able to 'look after you self' is no bad thing.
It's not much good sorting it out yourself, with some types of people this will only get you hurt.
Talk to someone of authority - Headteachers and police - this is part of their job they should know what they are doing.
We first went with the approach of keep away from them - but that didn't work. Luckly there was an even bigger kid who liked my son and she stood up for him and told the bullies to back off, that worked for abit. Still it carried on and we talked to the Headmaster - I never actually went to see him but did talk on the phone on a couple of occasions, like other advice have some record of incidents time places dates etc and a brief outline of what happened so you know what your talking about. Be calm authoritive etc. We were lucky because the Headmaster was very understanding and seemed to be quite proactive about finding a solution, he got a description from my son [which seemed to point to some kids he 'knew' about] I have know idea what he did but the bullying stopped. The Headmaster is a Headmaster for a reason and there must have been some 'system' he could put in place to sort this out.
I know nothing about the bullies - their names, ages, where they live, what their parents are like etc and in my view I shouldn't HAVE to know - in my case the Headteacher did a brilliant job.
It's no good telling your kid to 'sort it out' themselves, he won't be equipped to deal with it and more than likely will just get him hurt. Altough being able to 'look after you self' is no bad thing.
It's not much good sorting it out yourself, with some types of people this will only get you hurt.
Talk to someone of authority - Headteachers and police - this is part of their job they should know what they are doing.
I could sit here and write all day about this subject. I have always treated others as I would like to be treated. My kids have been brought up to do the same. I feel so helpless to see Adam (10) come home from school with tales of woe about the school bullies. We have tried various approaches with mixed results, the worst being me telling Adam to hit them back, which he did, where the bully fell about the floor (footballer stylee) and told the dinner lady Adam had hit him. we spoke to teachers about it and things have settled down a bit (so maybe it worked). What do you do???? The joys of parenthood!
In my experience with our kids once they realise that they should have some independence and rely on themselves to get themselves out of trouble it's amazing to see how their attitude changes.
One of the kids at school is a little runt of a kid, yet he runs his mouth off at everyone, when the kids get to a point that they can't stand it anyone they react as kids do, by either ignoring him or making fun of him.
He them runs back to the teacher and gets the kids into trouble.
Problem is the teachers had no idea that he'd been giving the kids hassle for days or weeks before the incident occurred.
After that the kid learned that he can pretty much do and say what he wants, as long as he is clever about it and do it out of earshot of the authorities someone will stand up and get him out of the situation.
Problem is, one day there won't be any teachers or parents there and he will get himself into trouble.
The older he gets before he learns this lesson the more trouble he's going to get himself in.
My kids know 100% that if they're in trouble we will do everything in our power to help them.
The difference is, we stand back and give them some room to see if they can find a solution themselves.
As an example, at our summer house there is a kid in the village that's pretty much a kleptomaniac.
Our lad has a Nintendo hand held games thing that he kept leaving on the garden table.
We told him that it's going to get stolen, he'd move it but do exactly the same thing again.
Rather than pick it up and move it inside for him, we just left it.
Strangely enough after several times of it being left out, it was eventually stolen.
Obviously he was heartbroken, it wasn't just the loss of the games console it was all his saved games and the like, but we told him he should have taken more responsibility and didn't do anything.
He asked us if he could have one for his birthday, nope.
He offered to wash the cars for 6 months, nope.
We explained that it was an expensive item and that we would not replace it as it was a lesson he needed to learn in looking after his things and being responsible.
He then started asking around his mates in he village to see how might have stolen it, and it just so happened this kid had a new Nintendo in the exact same colour.
Our lad asked for it back, but the kid said no, as the kid was a few years older and twice as big as our lad violence wasn't a solution.
So after a few hours thinking things over and discussing it with his mates, he came back home and asked to borrow the laptop for 30 mins.
Turns out that he had some pics of him holding his Nintendo (there's a shock), he took this pic round to the kids parents, and explained what he had happened.
Few hours later the kid came round our house, gave the Nintendo back and apologised.
I wish i could say he never leaves his things around any more, but he's a 11 year old kid so.....
But we left him some manoeuvring room to see if he could find a solution on his own, if he couldn't them we planned on sorting it our ourselves but letting him sweat it out by keeping the Nintendo till the trip back home.
Sorry for the long post, but it's an example of what we try to do.
It's tough allowing them to make mistakes you know for certain they're going to make, BUT they do know that as long as they try we have their back if they need us.
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several actually I have a physical disability (HME) which meant I got bullied quite a lot at school, and the teachers were, except for a few cases, not bothered. most of the time they try to pass it off as 'boys being boys' or 'a bit of rough and tumble'
I attended a house as their child was "playing up" all the time, and the mum (whilst sitting on the sofa playing on the DS) told me her child had ADHD, but hadnt see a specialist. I asked what her child had had for tea that night, she told me chicken nuggets, chips, and a can of full fat coke, followed by some high fat/sugar pudding.
She didnt like it when I said if he had a proper diet and kicked a ball around the park and he wouldnt be such a handful.
No disrespect to Multi but I am sick of people using ADHD as an excuse for a poor diet or bad behavior!
Re the bulling, I deal with this on a regular basis. It is a horrible thing and I was bullied at school. Manly by one kid who thought he was "hard". He stopped bullying me when I picked him up and pinned him against a wall by his neck. I brought my fist back to punch him, but stopped and let him go. He never came near me again.
You should only pick a fight if you know you can win, I see that the difference between an 8 year old and a 12 year old is a big one, however I have "dealt with" blokes twice my size by hitting them with lots of very quick aggression...
There is a lad in my sons class who was at the worst "mean" to him (they are 4) I told my son that if he was mean to him, he should say "whatever" and walk away from him. I have seen him do it a few times in the cloak room and it worked very well, the other kid didnt know what to do with himself.
I have also told his teacher that if a child starts to push him around, and my lad hits back, I will back him all the way (he is acting in a lawful manor), however if he started a fight he would be punished accordingly.
Leeds schools have a "safer schools partnership" which is suppose to give the school power to deal with bullies, but the head teacher needs to "have a pair" to use those powers and they rarely do.
I hope your issues get resolved soon as its an awful thing to deal with.
And one thing to remember is, a few of the bullies from my school, how have to take care if they drop the soap... if you get my meaning.
MRiding a bike into another kid at 12 years old is not normal behavour. Autism is a spectrum, if I was 12 and was actually seen bullying an 8 year old, the pressures from other peers that heard of my behavour would not be nice, this is a concept, people with autism cannot usually understand concepts others might be able to understand.
Im saying if any of the parents in the area do not sympathetically try and figure the kids problems if the kids parents is in denyal of the kids behavour, then that kids going to be wasted through niglect (always be a problem to himself throughout life), the kid being bullyed can stay away from the 12 year old, thats a simple solution. This a world of misperceptions, nothings as it seems, its not as simple as sayinbg a kids a bully. Social services can be involved if you think the kids not getting required help.
The kid be playing up due to some sort of molestationor abuse etc.
Bullying is never a thing of dominance in human society, its always based around issues. That kid could be suffering an unasessed autism.
Im saying if any of the parents in the area do not sympathetically try and figure the kids problems if the kids parents is in denyal of the kids behavour, then that kids going to be wasted through niglect (always be a problem to himself throughout life), the kid being bullyed can stay away from the 12 year old, thats a simple solution. This a world of misperceptions, nothings as it seems, its not as simple as sayinbg a kids a bully. Social services can be involved if you think the kids not getting required help.
The kid be playing up due to some sort of molestationor abuse etc.
Bullying is never a thing of dominance in human society, its always based around issues. That kid could be suffering an unasessed autism.
Went to a all boy school boy was it ruff , but one bully by the name of Rodger had his hands-full when a mate Ritchie Davies who was a very timid kid had been to the pictures the night before and come in to school and Rodger approached his in his normal nasty way only to be met with a flurry of punches that shocked the whole school for days .......the movie ROCKY the nickname that's stuck for some 30years rocky Davies What a memory :0)
