I say that it’s not an either or situation. Lots of variables. Nothing stopping you having examples of both, and in some cases they could be the same.
What kit are you thinking about specifically? Are you going to be carrying it long distances on your person, or will a vehicle carry the weight? What conditions do you expect to encounter? For instance, a tarp to use with a hammock in woods might not need to be as strong as one used on bare hills or loch shores.
I have examples of both, and some light kit that is over ten years old.
I tend to have fairly durable backpacks, light tarps (although I have a 3x4 bombproof one too), light tents of a strong design, light hammock. I am recreational, I don’t live outdoors so light kit lasts without a problem, and I would still want light gear to carry.
What kit are you thinking about specifically? Are you going to be carrying it long distances on your person, or will a vehicle carry the weight? What conditions do you expect to encounter? For instance, a tarp to use with a hammock in woods might not need to be as strong as one used on bare hills or loch shores.
I have examples of both, and some light kit that is over ten years old.
I tend to have fairly durable backpacks, light tarps (although I have a 3x4 bombproof one too), light tents of a strong design, light hammock. I am recreational, I don’t live outdoors so light kit lasts without a problem, and I would still want light gear to carry.
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Hi Jon,
I guess that depends on your intended use. If you are looking to cover distance your knees will thank you for going lightweight but if you are more stationary heavier sturdy kit will serve you well.
if you are around fires or lugging wood around you’ll need a solid jacket at least
I guess that depends on your intended use. If you are looking to cover distance your knees will thank you for going lightweight but if you are more stationary heavier sturdy kit will serve you well.
if you are around fires or lugging wood around you’ll need a solid jacket at least
No offence intended in this question / answer - and maybe more one to answer internally.
Would you say your own physical frame is " Built " to a bulletproof / highly durable type or more a lightweight /racing snake type frame?
I tend to find its unlikely you need the benefits of the opposite if you are yourself either a plodder or a high speed low drag expeditioneer.
Both have their advantages & disadvantages. If you're hiking i.e. long distance/thru hiking, then having the latest lightweight gear will make your journey much more enjoyable & your body & morale will thank you for it. But for knockin' about in the woods, local camps etc; then heavy duty, reliable gear will come into it's own. Stuff that you don't have to worry about but that you haven't had to hump it for 20 miles. As mentioned above, you can mix 'em up & cut weight here & there & some lightweight gear will perform better than the 'built like a tank' kit.
Any piece of quality kit though, will last longer than you think if you look after it & don't force it beyond it's limitations, so durability is a false friend if you put it at the top of your criteria list.
Any piece of quality kit though, will last longer than you think if you look after it & don't force it beyond it's limitations, so durability is a false friend if you put it at the top of your criteria list.
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Get both and use it as appropriate - that way it all lasts longer 
I agree with John; there's no one answer depending on what you're doing.
I use a waxed cotton robust jacket and thorn-proof hunting trousers camping in the woods - I wouldn't dream of doing more than 5 miles a day in them though. If I'm camping on the hills above the tree line, it will be a light-weight (but not super light) weatherproof tent; in the lowlands, often just a tarp.
I was backpacking with a friend a few years ago who swears by his super-light gear. It transpired that he was carrying 50% more weight than me because he just loaded unnecessary stuff (why not, it was super light).
I use a waxed cotton robust jacket and thorn-proof hunting trousers camping in the woods - I wouldn't dream of doing more than 5 miles a day in them though. If I'm camping on the hills above the tree line, it will be a light-weight (but not super light) weatherproof tent; in the lowlands, often just a tarp.
I was backpacking with a friend a few years ago who swears by his super-light gear. It transpired that he was carrying 50% more weight than me because he just loaded unnecessary stuff (why not, it was super light).
Depends on what you are doing, and how long you want it to last. I go the bulletproof route for working on my allotment and maintaining my bramble infested woodland but for a summer hike I'll go lightweight. My camping set up is definitely bullet proof and then some but I shift it all in the car, no long hikes in for me anymore, I am too old for that now.
Obviously I want my kit to last as long as possible but understand the limitations of some new materials.
I do drive to some camp sites but also hike a fair few miles to others, so looking for kit to suit both.
What are peoples thoughts on Kelly kettle vs alcohol or gas stoves? The kettle is obviously heavier but without the weight of carrying a fixed amount of fuel.
I do drive to some camp sites but also hike a fair few miles to others, so looking for kit to suit both.
What are peoples thoughts on Kelly kettle vs alcohol or gas stoves? The kettle is obviously heavier but without the weight of carrying a fixed amount of fuel.
I have not used a Kelly Kettle, but I used home made alcohol stoves for years, and both a Fritz Handel Bush Buddy and a couple of bigger Pound-Shop tin DIY versions. I also have an Alpkit Koro gas stove since 2015.
The Koro has pretty much retired all the other stoves. Much of my camping is car based, but some carrying, and in the past often with a flight, so fuel could not be carried. I tend to use a filter/chemicals, or a purifier for water, rather than boiling with a stove.
The Kelly kettle is a one trick pony, it boils water, and it does so with free fuel, so if you need a lot of hot water without fussing about running out of fuel, its a good option. For instance, two or three people on a canoe trip, stopping several times a day for a brew up. It is also nice to have hot water to wash and shave, and a few twigs isn't a high price to pay. They don't actually hold that much water at a time.
Twig stoves are similar but less efficient at heating water, but more versatile in that they can cook. They tend to need continued attention to be sure they don't go out. Bushbuddy fits inside a 900ml pot, but had a narrow operating window for fuel fill.
Do the places you intend to go have twigs? One of the things that put me off the Bush Buddy was some trips to the Lake District where I stayed on some sites where there wasn't a lot of wood around, and what there was was wet and lying on the ground. There is a certain satisfaction involved in cooking on foraged fuel, but sometimes you just want to eat and be done
Alcohol stoves are similar to the twig stoves, hard to get a simmer, but easier to light, less sooty and no scouring around for dry twigs on a rainy evening, also a lot less attention needed to keep going than twig stoves. The Coke can style stoves are the lightest option, and fuel can be carried in 500ml cola bottles, which are very light. They are more fuel thirsty than gas. I haven't used mine much since 2018, Borneo, just an overnight in the jungle, it was nigh impossible to find meths in Brunei, and only in non-resealable cans. I was horrified how much fuel I got through just to boil water to heat a ready meal thing...maybe there was less alcohol in Bruneian meths!
Gas is just the next step. Very reliable, little attention, very versatile, can simmer real food, but canisters can run out and still have to be packed out when empty. That said, the canisters last a long while. I know I can do a three week trip, between spring and autumn, with a 230g canister and have some gas left at the end.
The Koro has pretty much retired all the other stoves. Much of my camping is car based, but some carrying, and in the past often with a flight, so fuel could not be carried. I tend to use a filter/chemicals, or a purifier for water, rather than boiling with a stove.
The Kelly kettle is a one trick pony, it boils water, and it does so with free fuel, so if you need a lot of hot water without fussing about running out of fuel, its a good option. For instance, two or three people on a canoe trip, stopping several times a day for a brew up. It is also nice to have hot water to wash and shave, and a few twigs isn't a high price to pay. They don't actually hold that much water at a time.
Twig stoves are similar but less efficient at heating water, but more versatile in that they can cook. They tend to need continued attention to be sure they don't go out. Bushbuddy fits inside a 900ml pot, but had a narrow operating window for fuel fill.
Do the places you intend to go have twigs? One of the things that put me off the Bush Buddy was some trips to the Lake District where I stayed on some sites where there wasn't a lot of wood around, and what there was was wet and lying on the ground. There is a certain satisfaction involved in cooking on foraged fuel, but sometimes you just want to eat and be done
Alcohol stoves are similar to the twig stoves, hard to get a simmer, but easier to light, less sooty and no scouring around for dry twigs on a rainy evening, also a lot less attention needed to keep going than twig stoves. The Coke can style stoves are the lightest option, and fuel can be carried in 500ml cola bottles, which are very light. They are more fuel thirsty than gas. I haven't used mine much since 2018, Borneo, just an overnight in the jungle, it was nigh impossible to find meths in Brunei, and only in non-resealable cans. I was horrified how much fuel I got through just to boil water to heat a ready meal thing...maybe there was less alcohol in Bruneian meths!
Gas is just the next step. Very reliable, little attention, very versatile, can simmer real food, but canisters can run out and still have to be packed out when empty. That said, the canisters last a long while. I know I can do a three week trip, between spring and autumn, with a 230g canister and have some gas left at the end.
Just using the example of rucksacks ... much applies across the board.
I have few Kifaru packs of different sizes (30-90L); very robust. Also a couple of tough Black Diamond climbing packs (25-35L). Same with Arc'teryx; sort of mid to light weight. Plus some variously lightweight packs made by Mystery Ranch, Hyperlite and Patagonia mainly.
The Kifarus are kind of built for pretty athletic individuals capable of hiking out of the back country carrying a rifle, scope and most of a large deer in their pack. Constructed of heavy cordura. Similarly with the Black Diamonds, which are designed for climbing and have be able to be bounced up very abrasive granite pitches on the end of a rope. If there are no ropes and deer on your horizon, the Kifarus and Black Diamonds are silly. Where the Kifaru's great, great virtue is in the their architecture and ability to distribute massive weight correctly with rigid stays; so as to be able to walk tens of miles with big loads. In fact, the Black Diamonds are designed for a few miles hike-in at most and are not really comfortable for longer. But you could take a Dremel to them and leave them largely unscarred.
The Arc'teryx ones are good for some weight, but mainly for lighter but perhaps more bulky gear. No axes, big knives, heavy stoves in there. They let you hike for exactly as far and high as you like. They have good architecture but not of the same order as Kifarus. Their lighter materials are still very robust and resistant to abrasion, though. And being very cleverly assembled allow for a lot of improvisation.
The way lighter bags by Hyperlite, Patagonia and Mystery Ranch are (in the main) smaller packs designed for lighter loads; also tend to be slim monoliths with little to no external pockets - nets at best. Should note that the Hyperlite range covers 17-55L and are aimed at the section-hiking crowd wanting to cover twenty miles a day for days on end, carrying everything you need to keep going. Any architecture these have depends on how you pack them. They may be smartly designed, but sometimes overall layout and adaptability suffers due to weight-cutting principles. But, they are perfect for big distances carrying comprehensively-edited, often multi-use contents.
As mentioned above, used in the right way it will last and last. Just , if you need to take half the toolshed with you (and we all do at times) put it in the Kifaru, not any of the other ones.
This modelling kind of applies to your tent (or tarp), to your boots (or trail runners), sleeping bag (or quilt); axe (or PSK), kelly kettle (or micro/alco-stove) ... etc.
On the other hand, military surplus gear is cheap, quite well-built, quite well-organized, quite capable. Though, while much of it looks like it is designed for rough-housing, it doesn't always live up to its reputation. Sleeping bags and coats are always way too heavy. But it is always a good place to start and there are some bits (Swedish smock, wool baselayers, goretex bivvi bags, aluminium pans, tarps) which are really worth hanging onto if you later set off in either a more robust or ultralight direction.
I have few Kifaru packs of different sizes (30-90L); very robust. Also a couple of tough Black Diamond climbing packs (25-35L). Same with Arc'teryx; sort of mid to light weight. Plus some variously lightweight packs made by Mystery Ranch, Hyperlite and Patagonia mainly.
The Kifarus are kind of built for pretty athletic individuals capable of hiking out of the back country carrying a rifle, scope and most of a large deer in their pack. Constructed of heavy cordura. Similarly with the Black Diamonds, which are designed for climbing and have be able to be bounced up very abrasive granite pitches on the end of a rope. If there are no ropes and deer on your horizon, the Kifarus and Black Diamonds are silly. Where the Kifaru's great, great virtue is in the their architecture and ability to distribute massive weight correctly with rigid stays; so as to be able to walk tens of miles with big loads. In fact, the Black Diamonds are designed for a few miles hike-in at most and are not really comfortable for longer. But you could take a Dremel to them and leave them largely unscarred.
The Arc'teryx ones are good for some weight, but mainly for lighter but perhaps more bulky gear. No axes, big knives, heavy stoves in there. They let you hike for exactly as far and high as you like. They have good architecture but not of the same order as Kifarus. Their lighter materials are still very robust and resistant to abrasion, though. And being very cleverly assembled allow for a lot of improvisation.
The way lighter bags by Hyperlite, Patagonia and Mystery Ranch are (in the main) smaller packs designed for lighter loads; also tend to be slim monoliths with little to no external pockets - nets at best. Should note that the Hyperlite range covers 17-55L and are aimed at the section-hiking crowd wanting to cover twenty miles a day for days on end, carrying everything you need to keep going. Any architecture these have depends on how you pack them. They may be smartly designed, but sometimes overall layout and adaptability suffers due to weight-cutting principles. But, they are perfect for big distances carrying comprehensively-edited, often multi-use contents.
As mentioned above, used in the right way it will last and last. Just , if you need to take half the toolshed with you (and we all do at times) put it in the Kifaru, not any of the other ones.
This modelling kind of applies to your tent (or tarp), to your boots (or trail runners), sleeping bag (or quilt); axe (or PSK), kelly kettle (or micro/alco-stove) ... etc.
On the other hand, military surplus gear is cheap, quite well-built, quite well-organized, quite capable. Though, while much of it looks like it is designed for rough-housing, it doesn't always live up to its reputation. Sleeping bags and coats are always way too heavy. But it is always a good place to start and there are some bits (Swedish smock, wool baselayers, goretex bivvi bags, aluminium pans, tarps) which are really worth hanging onto if you later set off in either a more robust or ultralight direction.
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Kelly kettles are a fine thing if it is tea you want or hot water for washing etc, but basically that is all they are, a quick and dirty water heater. Gas is very convenient but I have gone off it for environmental reasons, which leaves meths basically, you really can't go wrong with a Trangia. Swiss Volcano stove is not a bad thing for heating water very quickly either as you can use twigs, meths, firegel, hexi (illegality notwithstanding) with it, but not really good for cooking
Do I have to post my article about making bread on the Kelly Kettle Hobo in all the posts here? 
The Kelly Kettle ceased to be “just a water boiler” ten years ago.
The Hobo accessory has been in production for a decade.
The Hobo is not to be confused with the flu mounted pot support. That’s more than 20 years old and somewhat limited.
The inclusion of the Hobo ring in the Kettle kit means that you can use any pot or pan you like on it.
The whole Kelly Kettle Trekker straps neatly into the elastic webbing on the back of my rucksack.
Ignore my first post on the linked page - about the chimney support. Scroll down to Hobo.
classiccampstoves.com
The Kelly Kettle ceased to be “just a water boiler” ten years ago.
The Hobo accessory has been in production for a decade.
The Hobo is not to be confused with the flu mounted pot support. That’s more than 20 years old and somewhat limited.
The inclusion of the Hobo ring in the Kettle kit means that you can use any pot or pan you like on it.
The whole Kelly Kettle Trekker straps neatly into the elastic webbing on the back of my rucksack.
Ignore my first post on the linked page - about the chimney support. Scroll down to Hobo.
IRISH KELLY KETTLE
[ATTACH] The main problem with the chimney stove has already been mentioned, the kettle is just too quick to the boil. You have to plan your meal...
classiccampstoves.com
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@Pattree,
Guess it depends how one interprets the uses of the term “Kelly (k)ettle”. You use “Kelly Kettle” capitalised both hence a brand name. Jon937 used “Kelly kettle” hence the kettle made by the Kelly brand. The Hobo Stove (a term that it appears that Kelly have Trade Marked…!) is not exactly front and centre on their web page, is not part of the bare kettle, and only some kits, while others just have a support for a pot over the kettle, which should still have water in it. That is probably why the Hobo Stove is not yet synonymous with the term Kelly kettle.
Guess it depends how one interprets the uses of the term “Kelly (k)ettle”. You use “Kelly Kettle” capitalised both hence a brand name. Jon937 used “Kelly kettle” hence the kettle made by the Kelly brand. The Hobo Stove (a term that it appears that Kelly have Trade Marked…!) is not exactly front and centre on their web page, is not part of the bare kettle, and only some kits, while others just have a support for a pot over the kettle, which should still have water in it. That is probably why the Hobo Stove is not yet synonymous with the term Kelly kettle.
I’ve said exactly that to Patrick Kelly!
In the same way that James Dyson gets irritated when he hears people talking about Hoovering with a Dyson, I think that Patrick is pleased to be a market leader but irritated by the use of the name for storm kettles in general. I believe that the general name was once volcano kettles, now that too has a specific meaning. I’m willing to be wrong on that point.
I know that I sound like a walking advert for the Kelly but I have no commercial connection of any kind.
On the other hand I am very enthusiastic about the tool. Unless I am prevented by pitch rules or common sense I always use the little Trekker. My big Base Camp is for company.
I sometimes write to Patrick at the end of my main camping season in April summing up my thoughts about the Kettle. Years ago this gave rise to the Hobo. This years spring exchange is thus far sporadically ongoing and concerns the handle and the carrier bag.
Lightweight and bomb proof.
The Trekker fire base and Hobo with an ss mug tucked into it. If you can be bothered to carry meths then drop a beer can stove into the mug as back up.
In the same way that James Dyson gets irritated when he hears people talking about Hoovering with a Dyson, I think that Patrick is pleased to be a market leader but irritated by the use of the name for storm kettles in general. I believe that the general name was once volcano kettles, now that too has a specific meaning. I’m willing to be wrong on that point.
I know that I sound like a walking advert for the Kelly but I have no commercial connection of any kind.
On the other hand I am very enthusiastic about the tool. Unless I am prevented by pitch rules or common sense I always use the little Trekker. My big Base Camp is for company.
I sometimes write to Patrick at the end of my main camping season in April summing up my thoughts about the Kettle. Years ago this gave rise to the Hobo. This years spring exchange is thus far sporadically ongoing and concerns the handle and the carrier bag.
Lightweight and bomb proof.
The Trekker fire base and Hobo with an ss mug tucked into it. If you can be bothered to carry meths then drop a beer can stove into the mug as back up.
Depends on what you're going to be doing.
Multiple days of hiking? Get something more lightweight.
Bushcraft/camping where you're basically in the same spot all day? Get something bulletproof.
Personally I just take less gear rather than lighter gear when I'm hiking, because I don't like the vibrant colors and lack of durability on ultralight gear. I take my bivvy bag, sleeping bag, sometimes a sleeping mat, 1L of water (the rest I will filter OTG), and potentially an aluminium pot and gas stove, and either a hoodie or a rain jacket (and food, obviously). I don't really understand why some people take multiple jackets on hikes that are just a few days long.
Multiple days of hiking? Get something more lightweight.
Bushcraft/camping where you're basically in the same spot all day? Get something bulletproof.
Personally I just take less gear rather than lighter gear when I'm hiking, because I don't like the vibrant colors and lack of durability on ultralight gear. I take my bivvy bag, sleeping bag, sometimes a sleeping mat, 1L of water (the rest I will filter OTG), and potentially an aluminium pot and gas stove, and either a hoodie or a rain jacket (and food, obviously). I don't really understand why some people take multiple jackets on hikes that are just a few days long.
You'll find exactly what you're looking for in any good camping shop. Just take your time and look for the aisle that also has hens teeth and liquid icebergs mate......
Joking aside, lightweight AND long lasting can be found, it just depends on how you care for your kit. I've carried really robust gear (= heavy) all the way down to ultralight (sub 4kg dry weight) and I can tell you this:
The way you care for your kit greatly affects its long term use. Robust kit can take a battering, you can abuse it and it will keep going. Lighter kit needs looking after because well, it's just not as hard-wearing. If you don't mind having to be gentle thumbs with your kit, the lightweight gear will still last you years.
I have foregone ultralight now. I'm more in the lightweight realm and I intend to stay that way. But as others have said, I have one type (robust) of kit for 'bushcraft' type camping (woodland, open fires, tracking) and one type (lightweight) of kit for trekking/wild camping. Buy that's just me.
Could I use each for the other activity? Yeah, but I'd have to care for it more or less......
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Hens teeth - trail food aisle.You'll find exactly what you're looking for in any good camping shop. Just take your time and look for the aisle that also has hens teeth and liquid icebergs mate......
...
Sent from my SM-A546B using Tapatalk
Liquid icebergs - hydration and water purification section.
Sky hooks - climbing gear, but useful for rigging tarps
Does cooking kit wear out? I’ve still got a lot of the stuff that I started out with. A bit bent and a bit burned but still totally functional. I have never spent money on big brand names; couldn’t afford it. I’m pretty certain that I use my kit more than the average user.
I know that gas jets wear out and fuel cans become obsolete. Also materials such as aluminium become unfashionable but does stuff break?
I’m using a 1940’s alcohol stove. I have some 1950’s aluminium mess tins tucked away that I still use from time to time.
OK so plastic sporks are just about single use items but other than them:
What’s sort of kit ISN’T durable?
I know that gas jets wear out and fuel cans become obsolete. Also materials such as aluminium become unfashionable but does stuff break?
I’m using a 1940’s alcohol stove. I have some 1950’s aluminium mess tins tucked away that I still use from time to time.
OK so plastic sporks are just about single use items but other than them:
What’s sort of kit ISN’T durable?
