Britain BC Kit?

[Toddy]

If you get back to the UK speak with Wayland the Murton site he organised the Dark Ages Meet at was really excellent and the idea was to become more and more authentic each time.

atb,
Toddy

 

[Bravo4]

*de-lurks*

A bunch of 4th century Roman auxiliaries on a 'patrol'

http://www.comitatus.net/events_files/WallWalkIII/index.html

Can't be much different?

"An 11-mile walk.....via The Twice Brewed pub." This sounds pretty nice. I was thinking of something a little more like a "messenger's quest" scenario myself. A little trek where I don't carry the items I normally would, sort of an experiment to try new things, or old things more like it. Any excuse to go for a long walk. Yep, I'm doing it next month, not the pub crawl, afterwards maybe. And like a meet, do it again next year and see what I've learned.

Otzi website
http://www.iceman.it/en/oetzi-the-iceman

 

[John Fenna]

If you get back to the UK speak with Wayland the Murton site he organised the Dark Ages Meet at was really excellent and the idea was to become more and more authentic each time.

atb,
Toddy

Just made myself a pair of "Viking " wool trousers for cold weather camp overtrousers/Dark age meets - if I can ever get to one!
I quite fancy using the gear that was current when Bushcraft skills were Life skills....

 

[tobes01]

Paint yourself in woad and get out there. A few flint sharps and you're laughing

 

[Wayland]

Ozzi Of Bourne?

'Shaaaarrooooonnn! Where's moy possibles bag?'

In all seriousness, from my bad memory, I think Otzi had firelighting kit - certainly flint and possible iron/steel?

The only metal object Otzi was carrying was a copper axe head which was really advanced for the period he lived in.

I have no idea. I don't even know if they left the fur on. I think they did, but don't know for sure. I guess they would use really thick cow leather tanned in oak brine for soles, but it could also be rawhide maybe? There is one version of tanning where you leave a center layer almost raw (untanned), this method was used for soles by the sami peoples, I think that would be good for soles also for the vikings.

I definitely think the vikings were so 'civilised' that they had the technology to do veg tanning, I think mainly oak and maybe other hardwoods too. Can't say I'm sure though

I have used some of that half tanned leather on a couple of projects and it's interesting stuff, quite rigid when dry. The only problem I see with it for soles is that when wet it is even softer than full tanned hide.

 

[Dunk]

thanks for all the reply's ;]

some very interesting reads.

i was thinking about doing a small trip this weekend maybe 30mile
i'll be wearing normal clothing

british army lightweight trousers
walking boots with wool socks
cotton shirt
wool jumper

i'll be taking a wool bedroll, knife, bread, cheese and dried meat and some fire lighting kit.

 

[sandbender]

i'll be wearing normal clothing

british army lightweight trousers
walking boots with wool socks
cotton shirt
wool jumper

The cotton shirt and trousers aren't such a good idea, even if the weather remains good you will build up a bit of a sweat over that distance and your body will struggle to regulate its temperature, at the very least you should have a spare shirt and socks to change into.

Maybe nip along to Oxfam or the Army Navy Stores to look for a woolen shirt?

 

[Dunk]

The cotton shirt and trousers aren't such a good idea, even if the weather remains good you will build up a bit of a sweat over that distance and your body will struggle to regulate its temperature, at the very least you should have a spare shirt to change into.

wear them all the time and don't have any bother really.
i don't mind being a bit sweaty. i can't stand tech clothing cause it just makes me sweat more than cotton.

 

[Tadpole]

wear them all the time and don't have any bother really.
i don't mind being a bit sweaty. i can't stand tech clothing cause it just makes me sweat more than cotton.

cotton kills, wear wool, wool will keep you warm even if it's wet, but cotton will suck the heat out of you when it gets wet,
Not so good it you have a limited kit.

 

[Dunk]

cotton kills, wear wool, wool will keep you warm even if it's wet, but cotton will suck the heat out of you when it gets wet,
Not so good it you have a limited kit.

what wool trousers and shirt? i think i would pass out from heat!

 

[Tadpole]

what wool trousers and shirt? i think i would pass out from heat!

I can't think why, I've a summer weight suit that is made from wool, and it's cooler to wear than my other suits. Not all wool is like wearing a pullover.

 

[sandbender]

wear them all the time and don't have any bother really.
i don't mind being a bit sweaty. i can't stand tech clothing cause it just makes me sweat more than cotton.

I can understand not wanting to wear technical clothing, you may feel less sweaty wearing cotton and that may be because the cotton has wicked the moisture away from your skin more efficiently than a man made shirt might. However the man made fiber will allow the moisture to evaporate, the cotton will remain damp for much longer and that, as Tadpole suggests, can be a killer.

 

[Dunk]

I can understand not wanting to wear technical clothing, you may feel less sweaty wearing cotton and that may be because the cotton has wicked the moisture away from your skin more efficiently than a man made shirt might. However the man made fiber will allow the moisture to evaporate, the cotton will remain damp for much longer and that, as Tadpole suggests, can be a killer.

i know all this but i dont reallt sweat a great deal in cotton thats what im saying

 

[sandbender]

i know all this but i dont reallt sweat a great deal in cotton thats what im saying

Good stuff, hope you have a great walk, maybe take some pics for the rest of us?

 

[Minotaur]

before the bloody Romans got here and ruined the place.

Being a Roman not so hard lots of writing, pre-Roman they are still working out lots and lots. Plus the big problem of what they did do for us. Lots of plants and animals are labeled introduced by the Romans.

Also could you like pick a period?

Ozti is 3300BC, and Ceasar turned up in 55BC. That runs the line from stone to steel, near enough.

If you want to go as close to 55BC as poss, you will need to pick a people as well. Ceasar's had dealings with Celtic tribes

Also just because they invaded does not mean they did a lot, except bring booze. It took them over a hundred years.

Wool, linen, nettle, hemp, leather, fur, marine skins for waterproofs. Maybe grass cloaks too where they didn't have wool.

cheers,
Toddy

Lot of that going to be big fun to work out, and then find.

what kind of shoes toddy?

BTW, I love when people mix up fantasy novels with historic stuff! Fascinating world you must live in! Was the battle of gondor before or after the battle of hastings?

Ok, to get flamed. Did he not steal Lord Of The Rings, from the Vikings, or their myths, and legends. A lot of his fantasy is based in the real world. Apprently he was a very good professor, and still considered to be one of the lead experts in his field.

If you do a search for the 95th rifles, and Sharpe. Their period expert did something like this, and does make for an interesting read.

 

[Toddy]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toddy
Wool, linen, nettle, hemp, leather, fur, marine skins for waterproofs. Maybe grass cloaks too where they didn't have wool.

cheers,
Toddy

Lot of that going to be big fun to work out, and then find.

Apart from the grass cloak I've got it all in my workroom right now Bet you Wayland has too, Eric and NickG and Xylaria and Cobweb will all have a fair amount of it as well

Isn't bushcraft fun ?

Good point about the period, love the comment , "From Stone to Steel ", brilliant

cheers,
Toddy

 

[gregorach]

Did he not steal Lord Of The Rings, from the Vikings, or their myths, and legends.

Sure, Tolkien was, shall we say, "inspired" by a lot of Northern European mythology from the first millennium (not just the Vikings), but most of that stuff completely overlooks the day-to-day practicalities of life. Plus, he wasn't completely authentic - there's a good deal less gore in Tolkien than in any of his source material, for example.

Apprently he was a very good professor, and still considered to be one of the lead experts in his field.

He certainly was - but his field was linguistics and literature, not history or archaeology.

If you want to go as close to 55BC as poss, you will need to pick a people as well. Ceasar's had dealings with Celtic tribes

Don't get me started on the "C" word...

 

[tombear]

What they would have taken (say Iron Age pre Roman invasion) would have been a horse, I can't think of them going far without one and if they didn't have one to start with they would have nicked one soon enough!

Ok thats not a very practical comment I know but it would explain why there was no specialised walking/travelling kit for us to copy. Most of the Celts possesions would have been light enough to be horse or chariot portable.

Now the Romans, now they knew how to travel on foot, old Marius' mules. If I had the spare cash I'd love one of the replica folding handle frying pan here

http://www.armamentaria.com/store/i...ath=43&zenid=226184b78b2f4c0ae1df94f8b433013b

Probably the squarish one.

I'm not sure how long the T shaped kit carrying poles continued in use or if they were a continuation of earlier civilian/non Roman practice but it may be a alternative to rigging a wooden framed pack which is what I have toyed with doing.

Roman sources refer to heavy woolen cloaks from Britain, I've always thought they would have been of something akin to Duffel coat material. Just the job for on stag at some mile fort on Hadrians wall.

Just my tupance worth.

ATB

Tom

 

[Tengu]

Tolkien never really goes into the nasty low class practical side of things.

He never dares do anything as prole as call his elves `Nomads` (though that is what he implies, and of course real myth elves were pastoralists, and probably if you were to insist upon a real race the elves were based upon, it would be the Saami (yep, we get back to them) with the Basques a possible S Europe contender....but of course there must have been similar people in GB, though there seems to be no real cultural/linguistic/racial differentiation.)

Come to think of it, dont we have a Saami heritage here? a lot of our viking names are in actualy saami ones, and theres stories of witches (see, back to the magic again...I dont think Tolkiens elves would have had trouble with firelighting, somehow) who kept `deer` as draught animals or for milk.

If we looked at Norse history, and indeed as an extension, norse cultural influence in the world, from a saami view, I think it would seem a little different.

(And where did the Greenlanders get the story of the distant people who kept deer...a memory of siberia...or was some settler experimenting? A saami hunter would have been more use as a settler than some norse farmer, wouldnt they? (And note the settlers made `sewn` boats! like the saami did...I mean sewn like a dhow, not a coracle...) what do you think?)

Oh to be a Finn man, and live in reality and myth at the same time!

 

[gregorach]

Well, it's never really clear how anyone (other than the hobbits) produces food in Middle Earth. The Elves are a pretty mixed bunch - you've got 3 different varieties of Calaquendi (the Elves of the Light, who arrived in Valinor in the light of the Two Trees) who live in cities, then you've got the the Sindar, the Nandor, and the Silvan Elves (who turned aside from the Great Journey) and you've got the Avari (who even began the Great Journey). Of the Calaquendi, the Falmari are seafarers, the Noldor are craftsmen, and nobody really knows what the Vanyar got up to...

It's all rather complicated.

Of all of them, only some of the Avari and a few of the Silvan Elves are anything like nomadic. The rest all live in permanent settlements of some kind or another. Presumably they have some kind of agriculture, probably roughly similar to what we'd now call original permaculture.