Bow drill advice please

[Alreetmiowdmuka]

Alreet just after a little advice on the subject of friction fire please.when I was last out in the woods a few weeks back with the lad I grabbed a few bits n bobs of what I think is ash with the intention of having a play at home n making a bow drill set.i have managed too get all the components together and seem too be working efficiently enough albeit with no success.i'm getting plenty of smoke and a decent build up of dust in the notch but no ember of any sort.now I've been going like the clappers when drilling too the point that I've drilled a few holes straight through the hearth board n still no ember.is their a certain amount of pressure that needs too be forced down on the bearing block.am I applying too much downward pressure. Or should I change my timber choice.all advice welcome


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[Robson Valley]

Much the same experience here = drilled quite a few holes right through the hearth board.
All smoke and no fire. BUT. I can chuck the rod in my electric drill and it all works just fine = big coal.
Have been advised to make the friction ends much fatter = thumb sized.
I know this should provoke some argument.
Drill and board materials: don't believe that source matters other than it being very dry.
People all over the planet make this work OK.

Other advice given to me was pressure first to grind up the dust. Then speed for friction heat.
Leads me to believe that even in watching successful technique, there's something that I'm not seeing to do.

 

[woodsrunner]

while ash can work....a set made from Linden (aka Basswood) or better yet willow will produce better results with less effort...harder woods tend to act as conduits, drawing the heat away from the working area...the harder the wood, the bigger the draw...softer woods do not transfer heat nearly as much, allowing for a better concentration of heat in one location and produce larger embers...woods

 

[Alreetmiowdmuka]

Cheers folks.i'm off too the woods over the weekend so I'll have another bash with some softer woods.ive fobbed this skill off a few times over the years n I'm determined crack it this time round


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[lannyman8]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDkfJvpYpqI

this is what i have done with willow but sycamore is what i have found works best, nice dry birch also works well along with hazle.

hard woods are a last resort as they take much more effort,hope this helps.

Chris.

 

[Billy1]

I'm currently working my way through a load of different woods of all types, and after struggling for a while managed an ash on ash ember today. Normally I begin with lots of downwards pressure, and then when I have a big pile of dust, focus on speed and less pressure. With the ash, I found that I had to maintain the pressure at the same time as increasing the speed for it to work, which was pretty exhausting. (At one point I had a HUGE amount of smoke, way more than I would normally expect to see for an ember but I still didn't get one).

I would definitely recommend using an easier wood to learn with. The best combination I have found so far is willow on sycamore, but willow on willow, or sycamore on sycamore were nearly as good. They are pretty common but if you can't find any suitable dead branches you can cut it when green, carve the set, then leave it to dry for a week and it will be ready

 

[Tommyd345]

Hazel on lime is fantastic!

Seems as there is a thread open about bow drills, can anyone give me a good natural bearing block material? My current one burns through the bit just as fast! My drill went from about 6" down to 3" in literally a few goes!

 

[mountainm]

2 x Limpet shells one inside the other. (Otherwise you burn your hand)

 

[Goatboy]

Have also seen the knuckle end of a bone (cow/pig) used as one.

Sent via smoke-signal from a woodland in Scotland.

 

[Alreetmiowdmuka]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDkfJvpYpqI

this is what i have done with willow but sycamore is what i have found works best, nice dry birch also works well along with hazle.

hard woods are a last resort as they take much more effort,hope this helps.

Chris.

Had a go with some pine over the weekend n was pretty much same again loads of smoke no ember.tbh I had my little boy with me n he slowed the finding of suitable woods process down too a crawl.i'm out again next weekend hopefully so gonna make finding some suitable willow of sycamore the priority even if I take it home too practice.cheers


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[NarzaCyst]

Glad I'm not the only one struggling.

Started practicing 4 days ago and was surprised how natural the technique felt. Initial thought was, this is going to be easy, how wrong was I?

I shall try the downward pressure early on and less pressure but faster in the later stages.

I don't know if this makes any difference, but after examining the dust after repeat failures, I noticed the early stages of dust (the stuff at the bottom of the pile) is very fine, how ever the later stages of dust (top of the pile) becomes increasingly larger. Almost strands and fibres about 2mm long and 1mm thick.

Has anyone else come across this / know if I'm doing a fatal no no in my technique?

 

[Tommyd345]

If you look at the drill, sometimes I find the bark can be torn off and thrown around? What wood is your drill bit?
What colour is the dust? Cooler dust is light brown and then it will go much darker when you reach ember-producing temperatures

 

[Robson Valley]

Woods don't matter because the technique, the method, is global = not everyone has what you have.
The technique, the method, seems to be adjustable to the woods at hand. So I want to disregard that.

I am a patient man. I will find the time and place to work on this.
I am reminded of the pleasure to walk up some grouse, accompanied by a 3 yr old who insisted upon carrying a glass of milk.
Hindsight tells me that the event set the world into a proper perspective.
Back to normal.
In my case, it appears that the grinding phase and the friction heating phase are not clearly developed in my habit.
I know for a fact that I can make it all happen with my hearth board and my rod chucked into my electric hand drill.
Thus, it is me. My technique, which is poorly refined.

 

[Firelite]

The issue of the bearing block has been mentioned, and it can be an overlooked part of the set. Do try to make sure that it is a hard wood and green, too. Every calorie/Joule that goes into the bearing/drill connection is lost to you and is wasted. Your electric drill has great bearings, so all the energy goes to the hearth end. I have seen people getting smoke at both ends, but not achieving an ember. You need to put a certain amount of energy in to the system through your arms to achieve an ember, but consider this: if you are getting a lot of smoke at each end, then you might be putting in close to twice the energy that is really required. Use anything to hand - soap, grease from your face, green leaves to minimize friction at the top end. Then all your efforts are focussed at the hearth end. However, do try not to succumb to artificial bearings - you are getting smoke so your technique can't be far from being sufficient. Keep as smooth a motion as you can, and don't let your bow describe an arc - keep it in a flat plane if you can...You might need to drop your bowing arm a bit to achieve this. Keep at it, it will work for you; and every hitch along the way will teach you a lot. Good luck.

 

[lannyman8]

http://www.wildwoodsurvival.com/survival/fire/bowdrill/pmoc/advancedbowdrill.html

http://www.wildwoodsurvival.com/survival/fire/bowdrill/pmoc/basicbowdrill.html

the above link is very good and helped me when i started out...

go slow with little pressure to start with and increase until you get the medium/dark brown very fluffy dust, fill the notch with this dust then go for it, lots of speed with more pressure will cause more heat and ignite the dust.

your trying heat the dust enough to self ignite, but you need the air to get to it too, thats why you need the notch, this catches the dust loosely enough so it can burn when hot enough.

make sure you use lube in your bearing block, i like nice green grass and maybe a little spit if it looks dry.

make sure your bow string is tight enough too, if it slackens of during bowing push your thumb on the cord to tighten it or it will slip around the drill...

and last of all, go easy on your self, it took me 1 day to master but we are all very different, the hand drill took me 3 months and lot and lots of blisters....

keep at it and very best of luck...

 

[Buadhach]

I'm not really qualified to give advice but I've had the extreme good fortune to examine from close up a 3500 years old fire making kit: bow, drill, base and stone hand bearing. It was really sophisticated. The hand bearing had a well polished dimple where the top of the rotating rod was located, saving wear and tear on the hand. The holes in the base where friction worked its magic were right at the edge so that sparks could be thrown straight out into the tinder up against the hearth.

The most telling thing I noticed was that the rod had been deliberately shaped to have a wider diameter at the charred end. I speculate this was so that downward pressure on the bow would create an 'auto clutch' effect and increase the string's grip on the rod, reducing slippage and increasing efficiency. It was a tool which had seen hard, regular use which probably took centuries to evolve into that form.

Just my observations as highly unskilled practitioner: hope they add to the thread.

 

[petrochemicals]

Had a go with some pine over the weekend n was pretty much same again loads of smoke no ember.tbh I had my little boy with me n he slowed the finding of suitable woods process down too a crawl.i'm out again next weekend hopefully so gonna make finding some suitable willow of sycamore the priority even if I take it home too practice.cheers


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Pine fire harders in my experience, you get one go and you have to shave the charr off again, and start with fresh material.

 

[Sheepdog Bob]

I know it is'nt very survivalist, (but it is recyclist!); but Barry Davis BEM in his book "SAS Encycopidia of Survival" reccemends that the bearing block with the least friction is a small glass jar like an old fish paste jar, Page 59 Refs

Bob

 

[Firelite]

Yes, if available that sort of container is a good option. When I was showing the bowdrill technique to some scout leaders a couple of years back, one really couldn't nail it. In the end, he used a shot glass as a bearing. I regard these methods as akin to using stabilisers on a bike. Sure, if you find something laying about that would make life easier, a paste jar for example, then you would be daft not to use it. The problem for me comes when someone gives up trying to really acquire the skill, but decides instead to always carry the shot glass.