blades taken by police - advice please

[SiWhite]

i studied law @ A level and I know this for a fact ...

to commit a crime you need ... the mensrea and the actusrea.

mensrea is the forethought of commiting a crime.

actusrea is the action of committing a crime.

you've already stated you dont know the laws so no crime has been committed.

so until you're actually told something is illegal its not.

Wow, I've read some inaccurate advise on the Internet before, but this is downright dangerous.

Your statement about a lack of knowledge of an illegal activity is utterly incorrect I'm afraid. I'm sure the OP is grateful for your attempt at helping his situation, but an A Level in 'Law' doesn't really qualify you to offer advise. Your earlier statement rather proves this.

I consider myself quite qualified to answer but as the offence has occurred in Scotland, the laws are often quite different. Had this been an offence in Enland and Wales, we'd be in a better position to help the OP.

 

[Robbi]

I actually think you have put your head in a noose.

I would be very worried that reason will not prevail and as there is not a knife amnasty in operation, the consequence could be you being cautioned for carrying an offensive weapon (s) with all the problems that will cause with your career etc.

I cannot for the life of me figure out why you took it further than the initial contact / warning / advice from the police in the woods.

I wish you luck.

 

[Joonsy]

contact a solicitor IMMEDIATELY, i hope you got a receipt for the confiscated items, the police know they can't fob off a solicitor but may try to fob you off without one, say nothing more to the police and get a solicitor NOW, only a solicitor will ensure the police act lawfully.

 

[vizsla]

So your saying you made a appointment to take all your sharps down to the police station to get advise on what situations they become illegal, and the police decided to take them off you even no you had a legit appointment??????

 

[caffeine]

Wow, I've read some inaccurate advise on the Internet before, but this is downright dangerous.

Your statement about a lack of knowledge of an illegal activity is utterly incorrect I'm afraid. I'm sure the OP is grateful for your attempt at helping his situation, but an A Level in 'Law' doesn't really qualify you to offer advise. Your earlier statement rather proves this.

I consider myself quite qualified to answer but as the offence has occurred in Scotland, the laws are often quite different. Had this been an offence in Enland and Wales, we'd be in a better position to help the OP.

i dont know what you're getting at but i was taught by the head magistrate from Wolverhampton crown courts you can look him up Dr Roberts, Tettenhall College

Google will help you out ... im sure i could find many links to prove exactly what i stated.

What backgroud do you have to say that im wrong?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Actus_reus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mens_rea

as i said earlier please stop speculating deal with the facts.

 

[baldscot]

Shaggystu- i was hoping others may have had similair experiences and be able to offer some guidance in terms of how they justify having blades in a public place. As i said, i am relatively new to this and, naively, thought common sense along with an approachable attitude would go a long way.

I use the phrase "aggrevate them more" as the officer i dealt with originally was verging on abusive, refusing to listen to any explanation i offered, or even my reply to his questions.

I would imagine some things can be dealt with informally (i.e. a discussion re: interpretation of law and some advice on how to enjoy this hobby without future fear of arrest) without being unproffessional.

Of course there's "bit's missing" - i wouldn't want to bore anyone with a word for word recollection of the events. I was conscious of not putting up a post which was too long and sticking to the main facts.

Silverclaws - this seems closest to the mark i.e. police not knowing the law. and i suppose i was lucky not to be arrested.

Caffeine - thanks for this, the part i felt was most relevant was the "resonable excuse" - the fact that i was in the process of chopping wood when the police arrived should have made this fairly obvious, this would be dependant on them being aware of this section though.

Beefy - i took the knives to the police station because the officer i spoke to on phone said it was difficult to advise without seeing the blades and suggested i bring them in to speak with an officer. I didn't consider the matter closed after putting them in the car as i do not want this hassle every time i go out as the car won't always be nearby - i was just looking for some clarity as i felt the original officer was wrong.

Dartmoor navigator - 1. i didn't think it was resolved as i was told i could be arrested if i have these out again in public - i have these knives to use them, not for display. 2. This is correct.

I seem to be offending or annoying some people on here - i'm not sure why, i am trying to be give all relevant facts and answer all questions as accurately as i can. I can assure everyone - there's nothing more to this than trying to get some clarity and common sense advice from more experienced folks.

 

[caffeine]

I cannot for the life of me figure out why you took it further than the initial contact / warning / advice from the police in the woods.

Exactly this.

@baldscot thanks mate i wish you luck please let me know how it goes.

 

[Vulpes]

What were the Police doing down there snooping around anyway? Weren't you on some sort of private campsite?

Secondly, regardless of everything else - you were camping - isn't that a good enough reason within the law to be carrying knives, axes and other tools? I think 5-0 down this way can be very obnoxious, but if you deal with them in the right way, they're normally alright. Often it depends on how you speak to them, how old you are, if there's alcohol involved, etc, but even so, all times I've had dealings with the Police, they've been alright.

 

[Joonsy]

get a solicitor IMMEDIATELY, only a solicitor will ensure the police act lawfully, without one they may not.

 

[Dartmoor navigator]

I seem to be offending or annoying some people on here - i'm not sure why, i am trying to be give all relevant facts and answer all questions as accurately as i can. I can assure everyone - there's nothing more to this than trying to get some clarity and common sense advice from more experienced folks.

I think folk may come across that way because the story is nonsensical. The first bit while you were out and about bears no relation, it was done and gone. You then make an arrangement to show a copper your knives for clarity and peace of mind, being a good citizen if you will, and he takes them off you . That being the case it isn't your fault but it seems like an incredible story.

 

[Robbi]

get a solicitor IMMEDIATELY, only a solicitor will ensure the police act lawfully, without one they may not.

this sounds like the voice of experience.......excellent advice !!

 

[SiWhite]

i dont know what you're getting at but i was taught by the head magistrate from Wolverhampton crown courts you can look him up Dr Roberts, Tettenhall College

Google will help you out ... im sure i could find many links to prove exactly what i stated.

What backgroud do you have to say that im wrong?

Ive been a Police Officer for nine years, and this March I passed a promotion exam in the top 4% of the country. Trust me on this, ignorance of an offence is not a defence.

 

[Dartmoor navigator]

Ive been a Police Officer for nine years, and this March I passed a promotion exam in the top 4% of the country. Trust me on this, ignorance of an offence is not a defence.

100000%

And always has been the case.

 

[baldscot]

Robbi - as my details were taken, i assume a log of some sort would be kept referring to the event - i took it further because i did not believe the officer was correct. All articles i have read, including the offensive weapon act, indicated i had done nothing wrong. I would like to continue to use my knife(s) / axe / saw without fear of arrest and thought i had taken the best option - i now know better (hindsight is wonderful and all that)

Joonsy - i did not get a receipt, on reflection i should have asked for one. The officer at the station did take a description of what was confiscated in her notebook which i also signed - i'm aware their notebooks have numbered pages etc and must be kept for a certain period of time. I do have her name and shoulder no.

Vizsla - this is correct.

SiWhite - i must admit i did not think ignorance of the law could be used as a defence but thanks anyway caffeine.

 

[caffeine]

Ive been a Police Officer for nine years, and this March I passed a promotion exam in the top 4% of the country. Trust me on this, ignorance of an offence is not a defence.

I didnt say ignorance though there are certain circumstances where this will apply.

IE. If something is not indicated well enough.

Do you think what i stated is wrong? and why?

In all honesty you wouldn't want everyone to know this so i'm sure you'd state otherwise.

 

[Dartmoor navigator]

I didnt say ignorance though there are certain circumstances where this will apply.

IE. If something is not indicated well enough.

Do you think what i stated is wrong? and why?

Dude, what you actually stated was this:


..."you've already stated you dont know the laws so no crime has been committed.

so until you're actually told something is illegal its not."....



Which is complete and unmitigated rubbish.

 

[Mesquite]

Joonsy - i did not get a receipt, on reflection i should have asked for one. The officer at the station did take a description of what was confiscated in her notebook which i also signed - i'm aware their notebooks have numbered pages etc and must be kept for a certain period of time. I do have her name and shoulder no.

No receipt? In that case you can probably kiss it all goodbye...

 

[baldscot]

Dartmoor navigator - totally agree on the nonsensical but i disagree that it was done and gone - my concern was that i had been told not to bring them out again. It is an incredible story, and i apologise if i have not described it very well. I honestly wish it was not mine to tell.

Vulpes - the police and rangers patrol most weekends. We were not on a private campsite, just a nice spot by a loch. I deal with the police fairly regularly and my experience in general have been good - as you say how you speak to them often affects the outcome. On this occassion i was polite and respectful - i didn't mind being questioned but i belived i was within the law as i was using the items in the manner they were intended. For info, i'm 33, there was alcohol present but not being consumed - i explained i had insisted on this before using the knives but he wasn't intrested.

 

[JAG009]

I would just like to say hello and welcome to the forum Baldscot ,,,what a first post and good luck getting your sharps back



Jason

 

[caffeine]

Dude, what you actually stated was this:


..."you've already stated you dont know the laws so no crime has been committed.

so until you're actually told something is illegal its not."....



Which is complete and unmitigated rubbish.

Did you read the two links I posted at all? Seriously this is 100% what I was taught.

I'm not anti-establishment or a pikey who thinks he knows the rules im just stating what I know.

I'm not saying that's how it goes but its up to you to find people guilty, not the people to prove they are innocent.

so until you're actually told something is illegal its not.

i didnt say ignorant of the rules ........ THIS IS TRUE ........ if the state makes a law and tells no one about this law you cannot be charged for breaking it. (We would live in a pretty messed up state if it were any other way)