blades taken by police - advice please

[JonathanD]

The heated-ness begins...I smell a locked thread coming

Not at all, but when something so innaccurate is posted in reply to legal advice sought. That kind of post really needs to be addressed and put right immediately. Everyone who has studied law to even a basic level can see that the person posting that ignorance is a defence has absolutely no grasp of the law in even it's most basic form and really should not be offering advice to someone who seems to be genuinely seeking it.

 

[Dartmoor navigator]

refuse the caution and ask to go to court.

The trouble is, mate, teh OP just wants the situation to go away and not escalate.

 

[mountainm]

The trouble is, mate, teh OP just wants the situation to go away and not escalate.

A caution stays on your record as an admission of guilt. It means it never goes away, every time you're crb checked for instance. Refuse the caution.

 

[tinderbox]

The trouble is, mate, teh OP just wants the situation to go away and not escalate.

If he accepted a caution he's liable to lose his job next time he's CRB checked.

 

[JonathanD]

YOU ARE ALL GETTING THE WRONG END OF THE STICK !!!



Also if the law is not clear enough in certain situations this can be used as a defense

The law is published and available. Anyone can view it. If you haven't read it and are ignorant of said law, then that is no defence. The law is pretty clear regarding sharp objects. In fact it is utterly crystal clear and has case studies to support it.

 

[Dartmoor navigator]

A caution stays on your record as an admission of guilt. It means it never goes away, every time you're crb checked for instance. Refuse the caution.

Thanks for that. I didn't realise that was the case - are we saying then that the punishment handed out by the magistrate would have no more 'weight' than a caution on your record?

I loved my comprehensive school BTW

 

[Corso]

This isn't an attack, more of a defense....against your shyte advice.

you owe me a new keyboard

 

[Silverclaws]

From everything I know, I know one thing ignorance of the law is no defence against the law, otherwise there would be a lot of real hard nut criminals walking free.

But unless we are legal professionals, we are all ignorant of the law, because does everyone know the laws of this country - hardly, there are new laws being made daily and laws that defy common sense, but it is held by a few, this country exists to make money and what better way to do that than to make laws no one knows about until it is too late.

Oh and sign nothing, but if they take anything obtain a receipt.

 

[caffeine]

Im not arguing either I might have misquoted what I meant but im still standing by what I have said.

Please dont lock the thread. Ill let you lot get on.

This debate is obviously needed.

Sounds like the knife law is a right grey area to the public and police.

 

[Corso]

YOU ARE ALL GETTING THE WRONG END OF THE STICK !!!



Also if the law is not clear enough in certain situations this can be used as a defense

I'm also sorry I stated what I did earlier in such a way, what I meant is what I have quoted above.

ok so what your saying is your original staments were completly wrong and that on reflection what you meant to say was they can't pass secret laws

its take a private eduation and a degree to work that one out


....go figure

 

[Dartmoor navigator]

you owe me a new keyboard

I think mine will dry out with a bit of time too

 

[rik_uk3]

make sure you pout everything in writing

keep a log of all events

ALSO !!!!

i studied law @ A level and I know this for a fact ...

to commit a crime you need ... the mensrea and the actusrea.

mensrea is the forethought of commiting a crime.

actusrea is the action of committing a crime.

My 'A' level Law is rusty, I took the exam in 1973 and remember little of the Latin taught, I do remember mens rea and actus rea (note its two words in each case and not one) but I thought IGNORANTIA JURIS NO EXCUSAT, was still used in English law or have they dropped the concept of ignorance being no excuse?

I hope we've had the whole story here and if the chap is in the right he gets his items back.



[h=1][/h]

 

[JonathanD]

As for having a sharp item in a public place. The police invited you there with the items, so you have their permission to have them on site. If they are not illegal sharps such as flick/gravity knives etc, then they have no right to confiscate them. You had reasonable excuse to have them (they- the police - asked you to bring them themselves). I would get yourself a solicitor as this whole thing seems quite weird and certainly not above board on one side.

 

[baldscot]

Can we have more detail on the discussions and actions within the police station when you handed the items to them, and the reaction and conversation that ensued at that time.

Of course - i was taken to an office by 2 officers (1 male, 1 female). I had the knives in a bag, inside another bag (a cheap brifcase type for work). I had already explained why i was there. The male officer removed the bag and then knives / axe / saw one by one. Straight away he told me he would have probably arrested me if he had been the officer dealing initially. When i spoke about them being used for the purposes they are intended he went away and came back a few mins later with a print out of the offensive weapons act. He read it then asked if i had any questions - i pointed out the section which mentions "reasonable excuse" and stated i believed i had this. He argued that the next paragraph mentions work, religious belief or national dress and, as none of these applied, i had broken the law. I was then advised that he would be confiscating the knives as he could lose his job if i left the station and stabbed someone. He then said i could get them back if the initial officer was in agreement - i was advised they would contact him when he is next on shift to discuss, they will then contact me. All blades were measured and a description of each written in notebook, which i signed. I was told before leaving that i seem like a reasonable person and hold a position of trust (in terms of my job) so they think i will get them back.

Please note - given some of the more comments so far - i have tried to be as accurate as i can here. I will try to answer any questions as accurately as i can but it is a bit of a strange situation which i am still tryin to get my head round.

 

[Corso]

As for having a sharp item in a public place. The police invited you there with the items, so you have their permission to have them on site. If they are not illegal sharps such as flick/gravity knives etc, then they have no right to confiscate them. You had reasonable excuse to have them (they- the police - asked you to bring them themselves). I would get yourself a solicitor as this whole thing seems quite weird and certainly not above board on one side.

what about just turning up and asking to speak to the duty solicitor?

 

[JonathanD]

Cool, thanks for that.

Based on that information I don't believe you have anything to be worried about. Sadly the two officers dealing with you at teh station seem to be more concerned with covering their own butts rather than hauling yours in. I'd relax until you hear back from them and take it from there.

 

[Dartmoor navigator]

I think folk may come across that way because the story is nonsensical. The first bit while you were out and about bears no relation, it was done and gone. You then make an arrangement to show a copper your knives for clarity and peace of mind, being a good citizen if you will, and he takes them off you . That being the case it isn't your fault but it seems like an incredible story.

As for having a sharp item in a public place. The police invited you there with the items, so you have their permission to have them on site. If they are not illegal sharps such as flick/gravity knives etc, then they have no right to confiscate them. You had reasonable excuse to have them (they- the police - asked you to bring them themselves). I would get yourself a solicitor as this whole thing seems quite weird and certainly not above board on one side.

Exactly my point - seems weird!

 

[baldscot]

The trouble is, mate, teh OP just wants the situation to go away and not escalate.

Exactly - just want to continue enjoying and learning about bushcraft, without fear of being made into a criminal.

 

[JonathanD]

what about just turning up and asking to speak to the duty solicitor?

That would certainly be sound advice if upon hearing from the police it is a negative response to the items seized.

 

[caffeine]

i actually spelt them wrong too but i wasn't going to say anything
and i've said sorry, but we were both arguing what we knew to be correct (although i hadnt conveyed myself well enough)