Bit more advice needed from the metal bashers

[Hammock Hamster]

Hi guys,

With the house move now only a few months away and more importantly the imminent arrival of a garden/man cave I'm starting to plan my forge in a bit more detail.

I have decided to start off with a gas forge at least until I suss out the neighbours as a slightly less disturbing method, yes yes I know that's probably the least of my worries!

I'm still undecided on whether to go with stacked brick or a lined pipe but am fairly comfortable with the design of both, refractory materials etc... But it's the gas element I'm struggling with.
I want to run it from a propane bottle and want something a bit larger than a 2 brick or soup can forge with a hand held torch.

I have come up short on google and various forums (mainly due to my lack of knowledge) and was hoping someone could explain, in laymen's terms, what it is I actually need.
I want to be able to heat various parts of bar stock, not just the tip, so will be making something open ended or at least quite long with the burner towards the front.
I also want to try my hand at forge welding so will need to be able to get up to welding heat.

Can anyone recommend a burner in the £100 or less range that will achieve the above, from my research I get the impression a B&Q job won't cut it but not sure if this is right.
Also I know I will require a bottle, hose, regulator and torch head but, daft as this may sound, how do all these fit together and connect.
I have seen a few options online http://www.castreekilns.co.uk/bur6---burner-kit-4500-btu-194-p.asp being one option that seems pretty straight forward though not sure if it's what I'm looking for, others are for just burners alone with no details of connections.
There seem to be a good selection from the U.S but have seen some feedback that they require adapters but again no details on what types etc...

Anyway sorry for the waffle but as I said I'm a gas novice and want to get my head round it before attempting a build, any advice would be greatly appreciated.

All the best, Hamster

 

[Dave Budd]

I've got a bunch of lined pipe/bottle type forges that I use, mostly because I need to be able to pick them up and move them easily. I too went down the buy a ready made burner rather than build my own route. Building it yourself from bits is apparently easy and cheap to do, but I didn't ever want to faff about with stuff that goes boom!

I've got one of those 45000 btu burners from castree. It gets a small forge plenty hot enough to forge, but I've not yet tried it to weld in (will get back to you on that tonight!). The larger the space the more btu you need, either by hving a single bigger burner or several smaller ones, but that will also depend on the shape of the forge. My small forge that runs the 45000 is 5x10" internally and works fine if a little uneven in the heat distribution (one end much cooler than the other). I did have it at 8x10" and it was much more uniform and hot enough for most knifemaking, but I wanted to see how it would work if I reduced the chamber (gotta experiment), I'm still trying various things with it.

I also have their 100,000 burner and that easily gets a 8x12" chamber up to welding heat! If you are buying the burners, don't bother with the electric ignition and the like, just go for the burner+hose+regulator, its cheaper and you don't need the electrics. They also sell all of the refractories that you want. Another thing you may ant to get is ITC100, it is a reflective coating that greatly improves the forge's efficiency. I don't think Castree sell it, but Bath Potteries do apparently and I have bought it direct from Scarva(?) in Ireland.

The other option is the Devil Forge burners that you will find on Ebay. I've heard of them working very well and they are cheap due to being made by a bloke in Lithuania. I bought one of their bigger ones to replace my 100,000 castree burner, in the hopes that it is more efficient, but haven't got around to plumbing it in yet.

Get the biggest propane bottle that you can handle, you get more hours of forge time before they freeze up as well as being cheaper in the long run

 

[Hammock Hamster]

Thanks dave,

Current plan for the pipe style forge (i here what your saying about it being portable) is a 6" diamtenter 12-18" long steel pipe with 2" of kaowool lining and coating of rigidiser leaving about a 4" chamber when finished.
I have seen a lot of comments about ITC100 but am struggling to find it availible anywhere in the UK unless its known under another name here.

If, as is likely, i was to go for one of the Castree burners does the burner head simply slot straight into the hole i have created for it or should i be putting in a sleeve for it to sit in so the burner is not too close to the inside of the forge (like the soup can forge).

I have been looking at the devil forges too, they are asically what i am aiming for if make my own and cost wise work out about the same when i factor in a decent burner and refractories so may well get one if im still not 100% when i get the new man cave set up.

Cheers, Hamster

 

[Dave Budd]

A 6" pipe will be too small. By the time you have 2" of insulation, the internal diameter is only 2" You need at least 8", preferably 10" diameter and don't make the chamber any more than twice as long as it is wide, unless you plan to have more than one burner (otherwise it will have a hot spot and lots of unsatisfying cool areas).

The castree burners will need to be held between 1" and 2" outside of the forge due to the back pressure inside the forge. if you plug it in then you will likely not get it sustaining a flame. I got my itc100 from http://www.scarva.com/ If its not on the website then give them a call.

FYI, the small burner will get welding temps ona small billet (say 1"x1"x4) in my little forge, but it takes too long for my tastes.

 

[Hammock Hamster]

Cheers Dave, I'm now undecided between making my own and one of the devil forges the latter looking like it might be the simpler route till I get my head round the gas side of things and hopefully a lot less I can mess up!

If anyone else has any experience with the devil forges in particular the one burner round model, DFS 1 I think, I would be interested to hear thoughts and experiences.

Cheers, Hamster

 

[monkey boy]

Hi mate where have you moved to, hope you and the mrs are well


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[Hammock Hamster]

Hi Sam,

We havent moved yet but the lease for our place is up on 6th July so will have by then.

it will either be chessington or sutton way all going well but the main requirement is a garden so depends on where we find a decent place in our price range.

 

[monkey boy]

That's great news, you will be closer to myself we should meet up more often mate,


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