Big Cats, Caves and Cliffs... No Snakes,One Lizard

[JonathanD]

So Davey569 and I started an epic journey of three counties on foot, investigating hidden caves I found by accident not so long back en route. Amazingly no-one seems to have been there since 1997 as there are papers still in there along with some old MOD rations and packs of ciggies. They are old. A few rare cave spiders are living in there along with some hibernating moths and butterflies. The passageways go off in a few directions and it's pretty obvious no one knows about these. They are not on any map and completely off the trail. We reckon bats will roost there in warmer months.

We found no sign of the animal that made the tracks, certainly no cat sign. We did find the whole area has a good population of Roe deer though.

Our main object was to survey for any adders and other reptiles emerging from hibernation at a location four miles away. It was a bit late i the afternoon and we only found one Slow-worm...

Next was a mighty yomp and climb to our camp site, a piece of sandstone rock jutting out over the woods and valley.

Nice clear night with loads of wildlife, badgers, foxes, tawny owls, little owls and noisy pheasants patrolling the woods below, behind and each side of us.

The sunset was cool...

The dawn even better...

Our camp...

The caves down below....

After waking up with dew on our heads to an amazing dawn chorus, we went off to find the reptiles. Really overcast and cool though, so we didn't find any out.

Didn't get chance to take any more pics as our final brew and food stop was interrupted when we were attacked by cows.

Dave took some pictures too. He might post up all three of them he managed before his battery went

 

[FerlasDave]

Great write up Jon, what an epic adventure we had. Ill post up my precious pics a bit later, the laptops about to die atm and Im too knackered to go upstairs for the charger lol.

 

[John Fenna]

Are those caves natural or carved out by man - or a bit of both?

 

[morch]

A great trip by the looks of it, and I bet the caves were really interesting. I trust you'll be going back to watch the bats?

Thanks for sharing the details and pics

Dave

 

[JAG009]

You did not happen to get some pics of those spiders ?
Ps looks like a good trip and your camp spot looks a cracker


Cheers


Jason

 

[JonathanD]

Are those caves natural or carved out by man - or a bit of both?

The smaller cave (more like lasages than caves) that is secluded is all man made. The second larger set beneath the cliff we camped on are both natural and manmade.

A great trip by the looks of it, and I bet the caves were really interesting. I trust you'll be going back to watch the bats?

We'll certainly go back to watch them emerge in the evenings. If they are present in teh caves, we will leave them in peace.

You did not happen to get some pics of those spiders ?

No, my phone wouldn't focus inside properly, so they came out blurred. They were pretty recognisable as Meta though...

 

[Barn Owl]

Cracker of a bit to camp.

 

[Siberianfury]

awsome stuff mate, that clifftop must have been the most amazing place to wake up

 

[SimonM]

Love the campsite...sounds like a good outing.

Simon

 

[JonathanD]

awsome stuff mate, that clifftop must have been the most amazing place to wake up

It was. The sunrise was behind us, but the wildlife and sunset was amazing. Summer there will be something else. You'll have to come over when you're up next. We walked pretty much the two days solid with full kit on our backs, but went on a massive 10-13 mile circle of country/woodland walks through three counties to get there. I nearly died on the last half mile which felt vertical all the way. We could have got there and back within three or four miles, but the scenic route and caves were well worth it. Wasn't it you that said it would be a cool place to do a night there?

 

[Siberianfury]

It was. The sunrise was behind us, but the wildlife and sunset was amazing. Summer there will be something else. You'll have to come over when you're up next. We walked pretty much the two days solid with full kit on our backs, but went on a massive 10-13 mile circle of country/woodland walks through three counties to get there. I nearly died on the last half mile which felt vertical all the way. We could have got there and back within three or four miles, but the scenic route and caves were well worth it. Wasn't it you that said it would be a cool place to do a night there?

aye its was, but then i was wondering where exactly i could string a tarp, need to get a bivvy i reckon. when im not so skint and its all good ill come up

 

[JonathanD]

aye its was, but then i was wondering where exactly i could string a tarp, need to get a bivvy i reckon. when im not so skint and its all good ill come up

Bivvy was definately the way to go. We just made a bedroll of bivvi, thermorest and bag. Really comfortable up there like that and we expected rain and had tarps ready. Didn't need them in the end. We used army issue bivvis, dead cheap and great. We even had some birch sap, although didn't have time to colllect a load. Dave found a fresh water drip below the overhang that was filtered by the sandstone, I had about half a pint and still alive, so that's a good source of fresh water right there.

 

[Siberianfury]

Bivvy was definately the way to go. We just made a bedroll of bivvi, thermorest and bag. Really comfortable up there like that and we expected rain and had tarps ready. Didn't need them in the end. We used army issue bivvis, dead cheap and great. We even had some birch sap, although didn't have time to colllect a load. Dave found a fresh water drip below the overhang that was filtered by the sandstone, I had about half a pint and still alive, so that's a good source of fresh water right there.

places like that make me want to become a Hermit, running around in badger skins with a big stick shouting jibberish at passing hikers and dog walkers, it realy is my favortite place in the country

 

[JonathanD]

places like that make me want to become a Hermit, running around in badger skins with a big stick shouting jibberish at passing hikers and dog walkers, it realy is my favortite place in the country

You'd love those caves we found, and the area. One of the first things we said, was that you would love to live there. It even has an internal chimney and carved shelves for candles. Wish I had more pics of the place, but here's a few more....

 

[Harvestman]

The smaller cave (more like lasages than caves) that is secluded is all man made. The second larger set beneath the cliff we camped on are both natural and manmade.



We'll certainly go back to watch them emerge in the evenings. If they are present in teh caves, we will leave them in peace.



No, my phone wouldn't focus inside properly, so they came out blurred. They were pretty recognisable as Meta though...

Jon, thats a decent picture of a nice Meta. You wouldn't by any chance happen to know which species it is would you? You said that it was rare. They are usually Meta menardi (the cave spider) but Meta bourneti would be really rare, and looks identical. M. menardi is probably more under-recorded than genuinely rare, although it depends where you are in the country. Either way the damn things are pretty fearsome looking. I remember having to squeeze down a shaft into an underground WWII bunker with dozens of them inches from my head on all sides. Interesting experience, even if you like spiders as much as I do!

Thanks for sharing. Caves are always interesting.

 

[JonathanD]

Jon, thats a decent picture of a nice Meta. You wouldn't by any chance happen to know which species it is would you? You said that it was rare. They are usually Meta menardi (the cave spider) but Meta bourneti would be really rare, and looks identical. M. menardi is probably more under-recorded than genuinely rare, although it depends where you are in the country. Either way the damn things are pretty fearsome looking. I remember having to squeeze down a shaft into an underground WWII bunker with dozens of them inches from my head on all sides. Interesting experience, even if you like spiders as much as I do!

Thanks for sharing. Caves are always interesting.

I was hoping you would see this thread. Beyond that chractaristic abdomen pattern, I have no idea which one it was. That's why I didn't commit to one or the other. I will get better pictures of them though and let you know so you can ID them positively. I've certainly not seen either species beyond more 'interesting' places.

 

[Mesquite]

Looks like a great place to have a wander JD. Thanks for sharing

 

[Harvestman]

I was hoping you would see this thread. Beyond that chractaristic abdomen pattern, I have no idea which one it was. That's why I didn't commit to one or the other. I will get better pictures of them though and let you know so you can ID them positively. I've certainly not seen either species beyond more 'interesting' places.

I think unless there is good evidence (i.e. close ups of the reproductive structures) you should assume M. menardi. M. bourneti is much rarer, and I don't think caves are its preferred habitat. My books suggest it likes hollow trees, although it has turned up in sewers as well. I've never seen it. Every cave spider I've seen from an actual cave has been M. menardi. As I said, in all external features, the two species seem to be virtually identical.

 

[JonathanD]

I think unless there is good evidence (i.e. close ups of the reproductive structures) you should assume M. menardi. M. bourneti is much rarer, and I don't think caves are its preferred habitat. My books suggest it likes hollow trees, although it has turned up in sewers as well. I've never seen it. Every cave spider I've seen from an actual cave has been M. menardi. As I said, in all external features, the two species seem to be virtually identical.

I'll get some close ups when I get back to the UK. I wouldn't class these as caves though, more passageways through sandstone with excellent ventilation. I suspect it is M. menardi, but it's not my area. It would certainly have been an isolated colony for centuries though, based upon the history of the sandstone caves/houses in the surrounding area. Given that this is far from a frequented site too, the possibilities grow. A couple where huge.

 

[Harvestman]

No guarantee that the population is isolated. A mate of mine has done some work on the dispersal of Meta, and found that juveniles go towards the light at a certain age, and balloon off as a dispersal/colonisation tactic. If it was to be confirmed and recognised as M. bourneti a voucher specimen would be required, but we'll worry about that if it comes to it.

Thanks for the interest. I'll stop hijacking the thread now.