I mean some of those bible people were nomadic, they must of had a possibles pouch of some sort? And an intimate understanding of the local plants etc I dont suppose they carried a lot apart from essential's and there tents, tending the flock's must of been a priority as well, that and finding water
Biblical Fire
- Thread starter BOD
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Is it at all possible that he used a flint and the back of his knife to get something going. At least tinder shouldn't have been a problem
Well, if you're talking about Abraham, then that's Bronze Age, isn't it? (Biblical "history" is not exactly my strong point...
)
I've just got back from the Pitt Rivers Museum and there is a fascinating collection of fire making tools there, spanning 2000 BC to the early 1900s. Much of the collection dates from the late 1800s to the early 1900s but there is a wooden hearth, with a drilled impression in it that dates from 2000 BC.
Aside from that there are hand drills, thong drills, bow drills, fire ploughs, fire saws, 'thong' saws. I'm pretty sure that steel dates from post biblical times, but there were flint and steel sets from all over the world (Japan, Africa, Egypt, Peru) so it is quite possible that flint and pyrites may have been used. If you want to see an extensive collection of firemaking tools, this is well worth a visit. Adjacent cases contain cordage and woven baskets, which may be of interest to bushcrafters.
However, I'd be inclined to say that some form of drill is the most likely, given the relatively dry climate of the middle east and the fact that drill firelighting was used in ancient Egyptian times and would therefore have been known about in New Testament times. However, some of the drills were from Greenland, so a cold, damp climate does not preclude the use of friction firelighting (as many BCUK members prove on a daily basis!).
Although we bushcrafters seem to like the process of firelighting, I would have thought that when a fire forms an essential part of your life, you would generally try to ensure that the fire, or at least embers, are maintained, so that the need to go through the process of drilling for an ember is not something that you would be doing every day.
Geoff
Aside from that there are hand drills, thong drills, bow drills, fire ploughs, fire saws, 'thong' saws. I'm pretty sure that steel dates from post biblical times, but there were flint and steel sets from all over the world (Japan, Africa, Egypt, Peru) so it is quite possible that flint and pyrites may have been used. If you want to see an extensive collection of firemaking tools, this is well worth a visit. Adjacent cases contain cordage and woven baskets, which may be of interest to bushcrafters.
However, I'd be inclined to say that some form of drill is the most likely, given the relatively dry climate of the middle east and the fact that drill firelighting was used in ancient Egyptian times and would therefore have been known about in New Testament times. However, some of the drills were from Greenland, so a cold, damp climate does not preclude the use of friction firelighting (as many BCUK members prove on a daily basis!).
Although we bushcrafters seem to like the process of firelighting, I would have thought that when a fire forms an essential part of your life, you would generally try to ensure that the fire, or at least embers, are maintained, so that the need to go through the process of drilling for an ember is not something that you would be doing every day.
Geoff
Don't tell me they made him a prophet just for showing them how to light a fire
Easily pleased eh?
There is a fundamental belief that Sodom & Gomora were built above huge surface oil & natural gas pockets. - BIG FIRE!
It is believed that temple fires were fueled by oil of some sort or another. The use of flint being struck on a hard rock would be worth looking at as a basis of fire starting. This would be enough to start a fire fuelled by volatile oil!
You also have to think of the trade routes (the silk road for instance) which would have brought many 'magics' from the orient, and some of this might have been the black powder created in Chin a couple of thousand years ago!
Just a few thoughts of my own to ponder over!
It is believed that temple fires were fueled by oil of some sort or another. The use of flint being struck on a hard rock would be worth looking at as a basis of fire starting. This would be enough to start a fire fuelled by volatile oil!
You also have to think of the trade routes (the silk road for instance) which would have brought many 'magics' from the orient, and some of this might have been the black powder created in Chin a couple of thousand years ago!
Just a few thoughts of my own to ponder over!
That is very good John.....:You_Rock_
a) What a fascinating read
b) I really must go to this Pitt Rivers museum - is it the one with the podcast you
can download and play on your own media player as you walk around? I think it
featured in a programme on 'half an hour in a museum in the UK' which was a
fascinating series I caught a few months ago.
c) Hello Jon P, not seen you for a while hope you are well
b) I really must go to this Pitt Rivers museum - is it the one with the podcast you
can download and play on your own media player as you walk around? I think it
featured in a programme on 'half an hour in a museum in the UK' which was a
fascinating series I caught a few months ago.
c) Hello Jon P, not seen you for a while hope you are well
The Pitt Rivers is my favourite museum of the many, many I have visited.
If you do visit don't forget to look in the drawers under the cases as well. There is far more there than meets the eye of the casual visitor.
If you do visit don't forget to look in the drawers under the cases as well. There is far more there than meets the eye of the casual visitor.
Maybe we should organise a BCUK visit! It is, to my mind, what a museum should be: dark, old wooden cases, absolutely crammed full of curios from all over the world. You could spend a lifetime in there and never see everything. There are vast numbers of artefacts from a huge range of 'native peoples' - so could be very interesting to 'bushy types'.
Geoff
It is a great idea. It's exactly the sort of place we should be visiting.
For me distance is an issue, it's a long haul and I only get to visit when I'm doing something else in the area these days..
For me distance is an issue, it's a long haul and I only get to visit when I'm doing something else in the area these days..
A BcUK visit - genius! Maybe we could get a group discount (or is it free?).
Is it within walking distance from the station?
On a very small scale (mostly mesolithic barbed points made from antler):
http://piclib.nhm.ac.uk/piclib/www/ - see anthropology / tools and artifacts.
Is it within walking distance from the station?
On a very small scale (mostly mesolithic barbed points made from antler):
http://piclib.nhm.ac.uk/piclib/www/ - see anthropology / tools and artifacts.
Pitt Rivers Museum
If you want some idea of what it looks like, go to this page for some panoramic views: http://www.chem.ox.ac.uk/oxfordtour/pittrivers/map.html. This particular one shows the two cases of fire making artifacts: http://www.chem.ox.ac.uk/oxfordtour/pittrivers/panos/groundfloor2.html.
If you are feeling really gruesome, you can see the shrunken heads!
And surprisingly, according to the posters up there yesterday, you can take photographs.
Geoff
- It is about 15 minutes walk from the station - or less by bus - and 10 minutes from the bus station, but I'd recommend the walk. Oxford is a small city.
- Entry is free - as is the case for all of the University museums.
- I can't promise anything, but I'm asking one of my contacts in the museum if there is any way we could get a special group visit - e.g. get one of the curators to show us some of the stuff that the public don't get to see. I'll pursue this and let you know, but I don't suppose I'm going to get far before Christmas.
If you want some idea of what it looks like, go to this page for some panoramic views: http://www.chem.ox.ac.uk/oxfordtour/pittrivers/map.html. This particular one shows the two cases of fire making artifacts: http://www.chem.ox.ac.uk/oxfordtour/pittrivers/panos/groundfloor2.html.
If you are feeling really gruesome, you can see the shrunken heads!
And surprisingly, according to the posters up there yesterday, you can take photographs.
Geoff
Now that's a meet I can really get behind as I'm very skilled in walking around a museum
and going "ooh" and could probably run a workshop on it
That Pitt-Rivers museum looks nice!
Here is a link to a temporary exhibition on firestarting in a French museum (musee de paleontologie humaine de Terra Amata, in Nice):
http://www.nice.fr/ressources/dossier_presse_mail.pdf
I haven´t been there but it sure looks like something for me (and other primitive pyromaniacs) so if you are in the neighbourhood of Nice: go there, make some pictures and write a review for me...
They may have some knowledge on biblical firestarting at this museum but they are not that fast with answering E-mails... I have tried to contact the scientists behind the exposition and the museum itself with some questions concerning fire pistons and making fire with the bamboo-spark method (percussion of a special kind of bamboo with flint or pottery to create sparks) but after several weeks I still don´t have a reply.
Cheers,
Tom
Here is a link to a temporary exhibition on firestarting in a French museum (musee de paleontologie humaine de Terra Amata, in Nice):
http://www.nice.fr/ressources/dossier_presse_mail.pdf
I haven´t been there but it sure looks like something for me (and other primitive pyromaniacs) so if you are in the neighbourhood of Nice: go there, make some pictures and write a review for me...
They may have some knowledge on biblical firestarting at this museum but they are not that fast with answering E-mails... I have tried to contact the scientists behind the exposition and the museum itself with some questions concerning fire pistons and making fire with the bamboo-spark method (percussion of a special kind of bamboo with flint or pottery to create sparks) but after several weeks I still don´t have a reply.
Cheers,
Tom
