i need to bend some hazel for making the ribs on my canoe. i will need to bend the wood 90 degrees and the wood tends to split a little. would heating the wood enable me to bend the wood to this angle without damaging it? 
bending wood
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I think heating the wood will help, but I dont think it will stop it breaking if you bend it through 90 degrees. Id either try using hot water and pouring that over the area you want to bend, providing that the piece is thin enough there should be little difficulty. Or try making some form of steamer box. Steaming wood to make boat planks and small items like chair arms is quite a traditional practice.jon r said:i need to bend some hazel for making the ribs on my canoe. i will need to bend the wood 90 degrees and the wood tends to split a little. would heating the wood enable me to bend the wood to this angle without damaging it?
Tadpole has it. Steaming is the best way to go, I'd say. I've done it successfully in the past with a length of old cast iron drain-pipe and a fire. I had a mate weld a piece of steel plate over one end of the pipe to make it watertight (effectively making the p[ipe into a VERY deep, narrow pot) then put about half a gallon of water in it. I set this up with the water over a fire and the pipe at an angle so the water stayed at the bottom. Once I had a boil going I wedged the sticks in the pipe and stuffed a rag in the end (Not too tight, so the steam can still escape) Afetr about 15 minutes I pulled the sticks out and they bent around a form really easily. As soon as they are cool you can release them and they keep the shape they were bent to whilst hot and wet.
Any set up that alows you to safely immerse the wood in really hot steam for a while will do the job. Just remember that you'll need good gloves and probably a rag or two to handle the wood when you take it out of the steam ! Get the wood bent to shape as fast as you can once it's out of the steam and leave it there until it's cooled off and you should find that you get as good a result as anyone could.
Any set up that alows you to safely immerse the wood in really hot steam for a while will do the job. Just remember that you'll need good gloves and probably a rag or two to handle the wood when you take it out of the steam ! Get the wood bent to shape as fast as you can once it's out of the steam and leave it there until it's cooled off and you should find that you get as good a result as anyone could.
Hi Jon R. Can I ask what type of canoe you're building, that require such sharp bends in the ribs ?
Can I ask what type of canoe you're building, that require such sharp bends in the ribs ?
I'm gonna agree with the guys. Steam-bending would be your best best. One native bowmaker I know from Orillia told be how he would put his bows into a metal tube and fill it with boiling water. After, he could shape his bow any wich way he wanted... never gave it a try myself, but I will next summer (when it's warm enough to play outside)
Bending ribs for birchbark canoes, I use green (fresh cut) white cedar and bend them two at a time over my knee. For bending dried wood, I boil water and pour it over the piece to be bent - wrapped in a towel. I've had better luck with this than steaming - as the towel retains the heat and moisture.
PG
PG
Eric_Methven
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
I agree with PG. Wrap a towel round the wood where it needs bending and pour boiling water over it. Leave a few minutes for the heat to soak through and soften the hazel then bend it (make a jig if you can) then leave it in place until cool. It should hold it's shape after that
Eric
Eric
jojo said:Hi Jon R.
I have never made a Canoe before and i know nothing about it apart from what i have seen on TV and on the forums. I asume that the bottom of the boat needs to be flat and the walls streight to give it stability. Am i right or am i going to all this trouble for nothing.
Hi there,
I've built a couple of wood&canvas canoes (with others). I liked the steambox, but for me 20-25 minutes for the ribs was needed (0,9 cm spruce). You'll feel it in the wood when it is done steaming: all limber. If not, put it back in. It sometimes helps to soak the wood prior to steaming. When making recurves in bowwood I boil the wood. 90 degrees sounds a bit too much. Too flat bottoms make slow spiritless canoes. The rounder (or V-shaped) the faster. But of course more tippy as well. Sides shouldn't be too straight either: a nice round bend in the side makes paddling more comfortable.
Good luck! And check out www.trakanot.se, the site of the man who taught me. Great canoes....
I've built a couple of wood&canvas canoes (with others). I liked the steambox, but for me 20-25 minutes for the ribs was needed (0,9 cm spruce). You'll feel it in the wood when it is done steaming: all limber. If not, put it back in. It sometimes helps to soak the wood prior to steaming. When making recurves in bowwood I boil the wood. 90 degrees sounds a bit too much. Too flat bottoms make slow spiritless canoes. The rounder (or V-shaped) the faster. But of course more tippy as well. Sides shouldn't be too straight either: a nice round bend in the side makes paddling more comfortable.
Good luck! And check out www.trakanot.se, the site of the man who taught me. Great canoes....
thats fantastic advice! I have planned to make my canoe 3m long, is that a good length? Thanks for wishing me luck, i'll be needing it!
Thanks for wishing me luck, i'll be needing it! 
pierre girard said:
Great. Is that the technique to straighten a hazel walking stick e.g.? Will the bark come of?
Good morning! Three meters is allright for a funcanoe: not one to go tripping with, but great for playing around in and practicing strokes. The longer the canoe is the better it will stay on course ('track'). A longer canoe is faster and easier to paddle. And of course it can carry heavier loads.
You'll probably break a few ribs before you get the hang of it. Don't worry. By the way, you can follow a canoebuilding course with the guy I wrote about. And you get to take the canoe home with you...
All the best,
Diederik
Ps: I can't copy/paste a picture in this message, but if you like, there are two pics of my canoe at my website (http://www.het-stenen-tijdperk.nl/) in 'over mijzelf'.
You'll probably break a few ribs before you get the hang of it. Don't worry. By the way, you can follow a canoebuilding course with the guy I wrote about. And you get to take the canoe home with you...
All the best,
Diederik
Ps: I can't copy/paste a picture in this message, but if you like, there are two pics of my canoe at my website (http://www.het-stenen-tijdperk.nl/) in 'over mijzelf'.
Eric_Methven
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Ketchup said:
If you cut the hazel in winter, the bark will stay on. If you cut it in summer, it will peel as the sap is running up the inside of the bark. To straighten a hazel rod, it's best to just hold it over a fire and move it back and forth until it heats up (assuming it's freshly cut). Then straighten it by tying it to a strong straight pole or something similar until it cools. If it is already dry and seasoned, steam it to straighten but the bark may slip. It depends on how much steam you need to soften it.
Eric
Two things: For birchbark canoes - the bending is done over the knee - and you strive for a flat bottom - as the rib is constantly working to (and eventually does) turn the canoe into a round bottom. After bending, ribs ends are tied together - no jig in use (as it would take multiple jigs to bend all the different rib sizes). These are not bent into sharp 90 degree bends, but rather shallow bends at the chine,
One way to get a bend to stay, is to take after the wood with a torch after you've made the bend. This will "set" the bend. I've never done this with canoe ribs, though I suppose you might with a canvas covered canoe - such as one of the early Old towns - as you have a full length form to work with. Where I've used the torch most often is in making snowshoes and toboggans.
I've been told, by Ray Boesell, a birch bark canoe maker who has bult upwards of 300 canoes, that you get the same effect by boiling, steaming, or by keeping wood underwater for two weeks. I've never tested this. If I'm able, I keep the wood under water for two weeks - then use the towel and boiling water method.
My father used to boil the wood, and I used to use a steam box (actully a piece of well casing with the end cap welded on and set up at a 45 degee angle over a fire). I've found the boiling water and towel method to be superior to the steam box - because the towel retains the heat and moisture. It is also much quicker.
One of the first times I used the steam box, I fastened a metal cap (with a small hole drilled in the end) on the upper end, and got a lesson in the power of steam when the pressure became so intense the cap shot over the top of my house and landed 75 yards away.
One way to get a bend to stay, is to take after the wood with a torch after you've made the bend. This will "set" the bend. I've never done this with canoe ribs, though I suppose you might with a canvas covered canoe - such as one of the early Old towns - as you have a full length form to work with. Where I've used the torch most often is in making snowshoes and toboggans.
I've been told, by Ray Boesell, a birch bark canoe maker who has bult upwards of 300 canoes, that you get the same effect by boiling, steaming, or by keeping wood underwater for two weeks. I've never tested this. If I'm able, I keep the wood under water for two weeks - then use the towel and boiling water method.
My father used to boil the wood, and I used to use a steam box (actully a piece of well casing with the end cap welded on and set up at a 45 degee angle over a fire). I've found the boiling water and towel method to be superior to the steam box - because the towel retains the heat and moisture. It is also much quicker.
One of the first times I used the steam box, I fastened a metal cap (with a small hole drilled in the end) on the upper end, and got a lesson in the power of steam when the pressure became so intense the cap shot over the top of my house and landed 75 yards away.
There are all sorts of shapes and sizes, as well as many different ways of building canoes. there are no wrong or right way of building one. It depends on what you want to do with it, the waters you'll be using it on , etcjon r said:I have never made a Canoe before and i know nothing about it apart from what i have seen on TV and on the forums. I asume that the bottom of the boat needs to be flat and the walls streight to give it stability. Am i right or am i going to all this trouble for nothing.
. In the end you can just follow your heart! Also, depends how much time and money you are prepared to spend on it. I have built flat bottomed ply ones in less than a week, skin on frames and strip planking, taking many weeks of work. They are all valid in their own ways. 3 metres is a good size, although it can depend if you are 5' tall and weigh 8 stones or 6'5" and weigh 20 stones
. Perhaps you need to narrow down what your requirements are before you decide what you are going to build.This one is a skin on frame. Pictures not very good
The frame were steamed oak. Very light canoe, nice to paddle, but a bit too narrow for me. I am 6'3" and too heavy!! 
That one a strip plank and veneer skin.
I built them without plans, using some line drawing in The Bark Canoes and Skin Boat of North America.
You are a true craftsman. That is amazing!
Im about 6'2 and weigh just over 10 stone so i think 3m will still be a good size. Well it has to be a good size now because i've already started it!
I have built the frame, gunnels and about 3 ribs. Will try and post some pics when its done.
Im not going to use any fancy material for covering the frame, just some plastic canvas i think
Oh and another question... should i fit the canvas and then tap the ribs in, or attatch the ribs and then put the canvas over the top?
Im about 6'2 and weigh just over 10 stone so i think 3m will still be a good size. Well it has to be a good size now because i've already started it!
I have built the frame, gunnels and about 3 ribs. Will try and post some pics when its done.
Im not going to use any fancy material for covering the frame, just some plastic canvas i think
Oh and another question... should i fit the canvas and then tap the ribs in, or attatch the ribs and then put the canvas over the top?
Do you mean acrylic canvas? I have not used it so I am not sure how it behaves, amount of strech,etc, I used ordinary canvas "loomstate" I think its called. As you already made the frame, I would now finish that, including all the ribs and some longitudinal stringers to prevent the skin touching the ribs, prevents the "hungry horse" look , then puts the frame upside down on a couple of trestle, making sure both are level, so as to not put any twist in the frame, then you stretch the canvas as much as it will go. I put the canvas over the frame and then used a large ratchet thing on one end of the canvas and fixed the end to a rope attached to a wall . Tighten the ratchet. Depending of what gunnells you use, you can use 3/8" copper boat nails, or staples, preferably stainless! to nail the canvas to the bows of the canoe first, then gunnells streching as much as you can without distorting the frame . Hope this helps.
, then puts the frame upside down on a couple of trestle, making sure both are level, so as to not put any twist in the frame, then you stretch the canvas as much as it will go. I put the canvas over the frame and then used a large ratchet thing on one end of the canvas and fixed the end to a rope attached to a wall . Tighten the ratchet. Depending of what gunnells you use, you can use 3/8" copper boat nails, or staples, preferably stainless! to nail the canvas to the bows of the canoe first, then gunnells streching as much as you can without distorting the frame . Hope this helps.Similar threads
