Beaver - Lures , Baits etc

[Janne]

They do not like us 'trans Atlanters" continuing on a thread where the original poster's (TeeDee) question has been answered already.
Posts #2 and #4.

I have learned new, interesting things from those 'derailing' posts!

But I do object strongly to the "xxxxx xxxx" bit. That is not a nice thing to say on a family oriented site.

 

[Wayne]

Mod hat on here.

Folk we all have to play nicely. That means not being rude to our friends from across the pond.

Our North American cousins sometimes do not appreciate the cultural differences that divide us more than is obvious.

A lot of folk find the redirection of a thread very irritating and sometimes they struggle with some folks expressing strong views. It’s not a very British thing to do.

We whinge about the weather but avoid conflict on the most part.

My advice would be for every one to respect that a global forum has a range of cultural diversity and a lot of it isn’t always clear.

I try to self moderate where possible. I write a post then I wait and reread it trying to understand how the readers will interpret my words. Most of the time it’s gibberish but occasionally I save myself from upsetting folk unintentionally.

 

[C_Claycomb]

I have a friend with Asperger's. He once described to me one of the problems he encounters when interacting with other people. He does not naturally pick up subtle social signals. He might be suggesting that someone do something they are not keen on doing, and does not recognise their repeated excuses as polite refusals. He sees them as problems that need to be solved and will keep throwing out solutions to enable the person to do the thing they don't want to do. This goes on until said person is blunt and direct. The problem is that by that time they are angry, and not only are they direct, but also rude.

My friend is very knowledgeable, friendly and polite. He does not try to annoy people and does not like it when they get angry and rude. He would much prefer that people be clear and direct from the outset, but in our society being direct is considered impolite and we rely upon people picking up much more subtle signals. I think that we have a similar problem on this forum. Subtle signals do not translate well to written text, especially not across cultures.

So, being direct, it is not "trans Altlanters" that people do not like. There are a lot of members from across the Pond and they largely blend seamlessly with those members from the UK, Europe and elsewhere. I myself originate from across the Pond and much of my view of the outdoors is colored by time spent there and the writings of North American authors. Despite this, I find myself sharing some of the current frustration and annoyance that has arisen almost exclusively from the posting of Robson Valley from BC and Janne from GC. Both are knowledgeable, experienced, and generous both with sharing their experience and directly in offers they have made to the members of this forum. They are also the most visible culprits for thread hijacking, derailing and monopolisation on the forum. That they come from a different culture that sometimes jars with that in Britain just makes this more noticeable.

I don't like to think of it as anyone's fault, it isn't something that is done intentionally, but as with my friend and his Asperger's, it does not matter if you think you are being helpful if you are actually irritating those around you. If you don't notice the hints, someone is going to end up saying something rude. We have seen this happen several times on the open forum, and there have been quite a lot of complaints made to the moderators in private.

I don't want to see any more members leave in a huff over this. I would like to believe that people can exercise self control for the good of the community and to find ways to get along. If people cannot self-moderate, as Wayne describes, we may have to look at much more active staff moderation, and no one wants that.

 

[mrcharly]

We have issues with flash flooding over here and it is likely that beavers, and the type of environment they create, can help alleviate that. It will take a few years before we really know.
There is a village in North Yorkshire that was offered funding (which they had to match) for building 'traditional' engineered flood defences. They did some research, declined the money and emulated the sort of thing that results from beaver habitats. Flooding issues went away. Cost them much less than the engineered solution and seems to have been far more effective.

Solutions that work in one geography may not be effective or desirable in another. Ditto animals.

 

[Toddy]

There are floods right across Scotland just now; lot of folks thinking beavers might not be such a bad idea.

M

 

[Janne]

We have issues with flash flooding over here and it is likely that beavers, and the type of environment they create, can help alleviate that. It will take a few years before we really know.
There is a village in North Yorkshire that was offered funding (which they had to match) for building 'traditional' engineered flood defences. They did some research, declined the money and emulated the sort of thing that results from beaver habitats. Flooding issues went away. Cost them much less than the engineered solution and seems to have been far more effective.

Solutions that work in one geography may not be effective or desirable in another. Ditto animals.

Did they (re-) build flood plains?

They reintroduced Beavers in Sweden in the 1980's (or 70's?) and it has worked well.
I and dad did a specific Beaver watching trip years ago.
Very interesting animals to watch!

We took down a couple of young juicy trees and placed close to their nest.
Of course that is not legal these days .

Maybe a mix of the proposed carrots, some cabbage heads? Something that smells nice.

 

[mrcharly]

No, they did a mixture of things including semi-blocking small and medium streams with bundles of timber (semi-porous), that would let low flows of water through, but cause fast flows to back up.
This was on the watershed above the village. It meant some farmers sacrificing a small amount of land (because it would remain permanently boggy), but those farmers were previously losing land to floods because fast-flowing water was ripping away banks.

The basis of the work was to slow the flow of the water from the catchment area. Give it more time to soak into the ground, and to prevent very sudden increases in water flowing into the village.

 

[Wayne]

I spent many a happy hour watching beaver in Poland. Amazing to see the accuracy of their felling and the size of Tree they can process.

It’s fairly well documented that beaver are beneficial to the environment and their presence increases biodiversity.

I think we need more tolerance for other species.

 

[Janne]

Activity of Mankind and wild animals clash usually.

I guess when the time comes when our roads and infra structure will get damaged by beaver activity we will start a severe culling program.

Sweden has a good culling programme for Moose. They are no fun to hit with your car. I do not know how Sweden is on the beaver side.
I doubt that UK can get a sizeable beaver population, UK is too heavily populated (with humans), to impact our human made infrastructures.

 

[Wayne]

Activity of Mankind and wild animals clash usually.

I guess when the time comes when our roads and infra structure will get damaged by beaver activity we will start a severe culling program.

Sweden has a good culling programme for Moose. They are no fun to hit with your car. I do not know how Sweden is on the beaver side.
I doubt that UK can get a sizeable beaver population, UK is too heavily populated (with humans), to impact our human made infrastructures.

I have seen moose in Sweden but not much evidence of beaver.

Not yet seen a moose in Finland. Too frequently shot I think.

I haven’t seen any large mammals here in Latvia other than a fallow deer.

 

[Toddy]

That's a common misconception.
Much of the UK, even in heavily populated areas, has masses of wild land around; especially outside the 'home counties'. It's just all protected from building structures upon which rather encourages urbanisation of the population. Much of the uplands and flowlands might be improved with some dams....on t'other hand the increase in midgies is possible.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41901294

 

[Robson Valley]

Which species of beaver do you have? Ours is Castor canadensis.

 

[Toddy]

The Eurasian one, Castor fiber.

https://www.scottishbeavers.org.uk

 

[Broch]

That's a common misconception.
Much of the UK, even in heavily populated areas, has masses of wild land around; especially outside the 'home counties'.

The population density of Sweden is around 22/sq Km; in Powys, where I live, it's 27/sq Km - not exactly crowded. Thankfully, most of the UK population is happy to live in large towns or cities

 

[Janne]

I have seen moose in Sweden but not much evidence of beaver.

Not yet seen a moose in Finland. Too frequently shot I think.

I haven’t seen any large mammals here in Latvia other than a fallow deer.

The beavers in Sweden are in the area from Stockholm and north. I think they were introduced around Upper Dal alven. That is where we went to, to observe them.
The Moose cull is regulated like all game except the wild Boar.

Yes, there are plenty of land in UK, but it is criss crossed by roads and lanes. In East Sussex where I lived I had problems walking for more than a mile without crossing a road or seeing a farmhouse. Fields everywhere, with thin strips of forest between.

I did trespass legally speaking I think. Private land everywhere. I did not like Ashdown Forest for lack of trees. Ashdown Heath.

 

[Janne]

Sweden has now more km2 of forest than for hundreds of years. Large areas of uninterrupted forests, with streams and lakes.
Wildlife like that.

The beaver is in fact a success story, they were basically extinct in all of Europe. Tiny populations somewhere East (Russia?) they bred from.

Wildlife in Europe has not had it this well since the late Middle Ages.
Wolf, Bear, Lynx, Beaver, Eagles and other birds of prey, Stork, all are thriving.

You need some Wolves and Bear in UK.

 

[Broch]

You need some Wolves and Bear in UK.

 

[Robson Valley]

Toddy's link documenting wild lands in the UK is an eye opener.
Trapping beaver for fur can become a sustained yield project.
The Royal Guards at Buckingham wear beaver fur hats, yes?

Here the trappers don't want extinction, just a steady income.
Our predators are not quite stupid enough to try to kill beavers.

Wolves and bears may sound glamorous until the "wildlife encounters" start leaving partially eaten dead people. Not a plan.

 

[Janne]

I think it is bear skin. But we should not shout to loudly, or PETA or Greenpeace will demand they change to plastic.

Tomorrow I am off to Canada, the Land of the Brave.

I am hoping I can find a nice fur hat in addition to the Buffalo check winter jacket.

Swedish wolves prefer dogs before humans. Not one single human meal enjoyed by them yet!

 

[Toddy]

Wolves and Bears
Yeah, right...that's the Scottish double positive indicative of an emphatic negative.

We're on an island, there is a finite amount of land, and it isn't connected to any continental hinterland and the sea crossing to the continent is over twenty miles.
It's all used by people, even if it's by foot, for sheep, for deer or trees.
Even after the ice age there wasn't enough time before the seas rose and the lands seperated for the full Eurasian flora and fauna to reach the British Isles. Ireland's closer than Europe, but they got even less than we did.
Wolves, lynx and bears don't do well next to people and their farm animals, they really don't. To make it worse the populations would very quickly become inbred and the whole 'island fauna' situation would develop.
Mini elephants on the Med isles in the past, giant swans, pigmy rhinos and the like, all gone now though.
Island animals have a hard time when the human population is actively using the land.
Someone decided he could just fence off an entire highland estate and create his own wilderness park in the Cairngorms....in a country with a responsible right of access, and the land contained Munros that folks challenge themselves to complete. He kept coming back to planning, got every loudmouthed supposed 'expert' to write to the broadsheets...it's still didn't fly. Besides, after the debacle of the last lynx escapee, and the claim of the sheep it killed (you note the owners claim that it was, "Most unlikely", yet the sheep were killed with a bite to the neck)
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/escaped-lynx-accused-killing-seven-13871560
I don't think the local farmers will be in favour.

M