1450º - 1500ºF (788º - 815ºC) hardening temperature in a household oven?
I wish mine would do that, could broil a sirloin in 14 seconds!
"Beater and Biter..."
- Thread starter stuart m
- Start date
1450º - 1500ºF (788º - 815ºC) hardening temperature in a household oven?
I wish mine would do that, could broil a sirloin in 14 seconds!
To add my very novice 2ps worth.
Snufkins knife looks very much kukri and is designed to be used in a similar way, different sections of blade used for different purposes.However it has plenty of weight/belly for chopping momentum.
The beater does not have the forward weight therefore will it have enough power to push a 5mm blade through? I thought long bladed leukus worked because their blades were relatively thin - more of a power slice.
From tests between my kukri and golok the kuk wins hands down, largely I believe because of design and forward weight. The golok is too thin to be a really good chopper but too thick to be a really good slicer, a bit too much of a compromise but still useful.
Also, is a chopping knife really useful?? How often do I need/want to chop down a tree with a knife? For me a long blade is more useful for slicing.
Snufkins knife looks very much kukri and is designed to be used in a similar way, different sections of blade used for different purposes.However it has plenty of weight/belly for chopping momentum.
The beater does not have the forward weight therefore will it have enough power to push a 5mm blade through? I thought long bladed leukus worked because their blades were relatively thin - more of a power slice.
From tests between my kukri and golok the kuk wins hands down, largely I believe because of design and forward weight. The golok is too thin to be a really good chopper but too thick to be a really good slicer, a bit too much of a compromise but still useful.
Also, is a chopping knife really useful?? How often do I need/want to chop down a tree with a knife? For me a long blade is more useful for slicing.
remember that if Red goes with the grind from the original drawing on the right that there will be more metal removed than the scandi leuku has. so imho it will slice about the same, because only the spine will be 5mm thick whereas a leuku stays 3mm down to two thirds of the width of the blade
i think Red intention on use is the dictation for the blade
as its part of a companion Set then it can be more single minded on the blade it dosnt have to do all the jobs so it makes little sence to me to try and make it to multi purpose as it will then fail in its main task "Jack of all trades Master of none"
its going to be at least used with the smaller knife and may even have the PFK around as a intermedary etc if you have an axe then its probably redundant if the PFK is there maybe the smaller knife is redundant
I think this is the main flaw in the Woodlore style For me anyway they made it 4mm thick to try and make it batton as big a bit of wood as possible being this was the only knife envisaaged you would carry etc this means its let down on many other tasks that size knife is good for
if its a beater then no... weight is not as important as a chopper its just a splitting wedge with a nice handle and case 
length and depth maybe important so you have something sticking out of your log to hit
ATB
Duncan
as its part of a companion Set then it can be more single minded on the blade it dosnt have to do all the jobs so it makes little sence to me to try and make it to multi purpose as it will then fail in its main task "Jack of all trades Master of none"
its going to be at least used with the smaller knife and may even have the PFK around as a intermedary etc if you have an axe then its probably redundant if the PFK is there maybe the smaller knife is redundant
I think this is the main flaw in the Woodlore style For me anyway they made it 4mm thick to try and make it batton as big a bit of wood as possible being this was the only knife envisaaged you would carry etc this means its let down on many other tasks that size knife is good for
if its a beater then no... weight is not as important as a chopper its just a splitting wedge with a nice handle and case
length and depth maybe important so you have something sticking out of your log to hit
ATB
Duncan
I think the chop down the tree comment is valid - I won't ever chop down a tree with this knife! I may well though cut and sharpen stakes for fire cranes or shelters, baton through medium sized logs, perform camp tasks from carving meat to jointing etc.
Its not really a "chopper" as much as a big "baton / slice / bore" knife. To be an effective chopper needs more weight than I am am willing to carry to be honest - the Wiseman tool could do it, as could a khukri. I'm thinking heavy use knife rather than true parang replacement.
Red
Its not really a "chopper" as much as a big "baton / slice / bore" knife. To be an effective chopper needs more weight than I am am willing to carry to be honest - the Wiseman tool could do it, as could a khukri. I'm thinking heavy use knife rather than true parang replacement.
Red
That said, I see this knife with no other than a flat grind with a convex edge...
Let me try and explain... If I was making the "Beater" knife with a full flat grind with a secondary bevel to take it to an edge, bearing in mind it's size and duties, I would grind the full flat leaving an edge of about 1mm, maybe just a little more...
What I'm talking about for the "Beater" and its convex edge is to again grind it full flat, but leaving about 2.5mm thickness at the edge, then grind the convex from about 10mm back from the edge, to the edge...
Clear as mud eh?
In A2 steel, properly ht'd, 5mm at the spine, this knife will.... "I may well though cut and sharpen stakes for fire cranes or shelters, baton through medium sized logs, perform camp tasks from carving meat to jointing etc" AND, "chop down a tree"
Stu
I did an experiment last night to see how well a small knife will chop.
I have a Cold Steel Master Hunter, blade length 4.5 inch (115mm) X 1 1/8 (29mm) X 3/16 (4.5mm) full flat grind.
Using a lanyard and a two finger grip to increase my leverage I chopped a 3 inch Hickory sapling into. It was not as hard as I thought it would be with such a small knife.
And it would still shave hair afterwards. I think Stu is now on the right track for this Beater. It should well outperform my little knife.
I have a Cold Steel Master Hunter, blade length 4.5 inch (115mm) X 1 1/8 (29mm) X 3/16 (4.5mm) full flat grind.
Using a lanyard and a two finger grip to increase my leverage I chopped a 3 inch Hickory sapling into. It was not as hard as I thought it would be with such a small knife.
And it would still shave hair afterwards. I think Stu is now on the right track for this Beater. It should well outperform my little knife.
Okay - that works for me then - flat grind going to convex 1cm back from the cutting edge on a 5cm spine it shall be. Tapered tang is in.
How about the taper at the front stu - I'm thinking to keep the point strong still about 3mm at the point?
Red
How about the taper at the front stu - I'm thinking to keep the point strong still about 3mm at the point?
Red
Great, I'll still get the blanks away for you to see though... I will try and remove some of the metal before I send them.
I see what you mean about the point, that should be fine
And the blanks are in my hands.....
Heres beater with the basic grind on....
In hand....
showing the grind.....
the tang tapered to move the balance forward...
with the "biter" blank
And finally, the stabalised maple burl I'm considering for the scales....
What do you think?
Red
Heres beater with the basic grind on....
In hand....
showing the grind.....
the tang tapered to move the balance forward...
with the "biter" blank
And finally, the stabalised maple burl I'm considering for the scales....
What do you think?
Red
bloody hell !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Very very nice. Maple is looking rather fetching aswell.
Get em gripped
Very very nice. Maple is looking rather fetching aswell.
Get em gripped
Morning Red,
I can take more off that tang if you decide you'd like more of the weight forward, I thought I would let you see it like that first though. It's a little easier taking more off than t'other way round
The "Beater" blade is fully ht'd Red so feel free to hit it against things, get a feel for it, as best you can without the handle on anyway.
I can take more off that tang if you decide you'd like more of the weight forward, I thought I would let you see it like that first though. It's a little easier taking more off than t'other way round
The "Beater" blade is fully ht'd Red so feel free to hit it against things, get a feel for it, as best you can without the handle on anyway.
The blades arrived safely back with me today, Red is happy with the weight/balance of them so onwards and upwards...
The "Biter" has now had some material removed from it's bevels, it is in ht as I type
The "Biter" has now had some material removed from it's bevels, it is in ht as I type
More than happy Stu - the balance on Beater is spot on and it feels really good in the hand - sort of a good handful of knife without being cumbersome. That 5mm spine really gives it a tough feel too. As a knife to baton with I think it will be hard to beat - long enough to go through a good sized log and strong enough to take it!
Biter sits really nicely in the hand too and should lie beautifully in a piggy back sheath.
I'm all excited now!
red
Biter sits really nicely in the hand too and should lie beautifully in a piggy back sheath.
I'm all excited now!
red
I think that blade shape is all wrong for a right handed person, much better in the hands of a left handed person, like myself
No no its designed for the more dextrous amongst us. Sinister people can't touch it. You need to be adroit rather than gauche.
Weird how terms for right and left have come to ahve such meanings!
red
Weird how terms for right and left have come to ahve such meanings!
red
I saw this blade today when I went up to see Stuart. Very nice indeed, but I have girly small hands so the handle is a bit too big for me! The blade size is very nice though and should be perfect for the job it is designed for. It is amazing how Stuart gets the grinds so equal and perfect like he does, like he said it is what he does, but it still amazed me!
I saw a number of other blades whilst I was at his workshop, Mojo's and RB's knives are a few that stick in my mind, along with a few others for other customers. It is a fantastic little workshop and I really liked the treadle pillar drill modification!
So, my reason for going to see Stuart was to commission a few blades for my daughters. I took a little wooden carved training knife that I made for one of my girls along, and we chatted about the shape and size, grind and blade material, scale materials, pins etc. It was great and I watched as Stuart took the basic shape and expanded on it to create a likeness as to how he envisioned the knife. It was a really nice hour or so that I spent there, I got to see some really nice work including a gralloching knife made by his mother a number of years ago, and it all reinforced the idea that you are getting quality work done here.
So Red, I reckon you will be mega happy when they are done. I didn't see the smaller knife, but I reckon that will ooze class as well! Just one thing for anybody going to see Stuart: parking in that area is a nightmare! It took me about fifteen minutes to find a place, but it was worth it in the end!
And Stuart, the missus says yes!
I saw a number of other blades whilst I was at his workshop, Mojo's and RB's knives are a few that stick in my mind, along with a few others for other customers. It is a fantastic little workshop and I really liked the treadle pillar drill modification!
So, my reason for going to see Stuart was to commission a few blades for my daughters. I took a little wooden carved training knife that I made for one of my girls along, and we chatted about the shape and size, grind and blade material, scale materials, pins etc. It was great and I watched as Stuart took the basic shape and expanded on it to create a likeness as to how he envisioned the knife. It was a really nice hour or so that I spent there, I got to see some really nice work including a gralloching knife made by his mother a number of years ago, and it all reinforced the idea that you are getting quality work done here.
So Red, I reckon you will be mega happy when they are done. I didn't see the smaller knife, but I reckon that will ooze class as well! Just one thing for anybody going to see Stuart: parking in that area is a nightmare! It took me about fifteen minutes to find a place, but it was worth it in the end!
And Stuart, the missus says yes!
It is lovely to deal with a real craftsman isn't it Spam? Not only is the finished product beautiful (which some factories manage to approach) but its made with the right materials and is axactly and I do mean EXACTLY what you want. No factory does that.
If you are in any doubt ever whether dealing with stu is as good as we say. It is.
Red
If you are in any doubt ever whether dealing with stu is as good as we say. It is.
Red
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