Bear Eats Sea Kayak!

[sunndog]

There's an enormous gulf between what europeans believe(!) and what those of us in western North America actually do.
I don't give a sweet rat's patootie what you think of my hunting for food. Birds, big game = all the same to me.
Bears are good to eat, like all other big game here. I'm really good at birds = if it flies, it dies.
I have a good annual source for bison.
So, I barter that with friends for moose/elk/deer. I don't eat white-faced range maggots.

Seems to be several threads here, tangled in a knot. You want food? Real food? Real meat? Get your buns over here.
Opportunist hunting would give me a diversity of meats that I'd really like.

In the meantime, play nice and learn what we do for food.
How many dozen grouse do you put in your freezer each autumn?

don't say it like you have a monopoly on being hunters though. Uk and europe have been at it for a very long time
There is just as much anti hunting sentiment your side of the pond as ours

 

[dewi]

There's an enormous gulf between what europeans believe(!) and what those of us in western North America actually do.
I don't give a sweet rat's patootie what you think of my hunting for food. Birds, big game = all the same to me.
Bears are good to eat, like all other big game here. I'm really good at birds = if it flies, it dies.
I have a good annual source for bison.
So, I barter that with friends for moose/elk/deer. I don't eat white-faced range maggots.

Seems to be several threads here, tangled in a knot. You want food? Real food? Real meat? Get your buns over here.
Opportunist hunting would give me a diversity of meats that I'd really like.

In the meantime, play nice and learn what we do for food.
How many dozen grouse do you put in your freezer each autumn?

Massive difference between what you're saying and the argument from earlier. Hunting for food, there is a reason for it. You're going to eat it. You have not needlessly killed an animal for the fun of it. There was mention before about killing vermin, again, it's a reason that doesn't involve taking pleasure from killing.

 

[dewi]

Must say I'm allready tempted to shut this thread down as I can see it turning into a worse slanging match. Hunting for vermin control/fun are things that both side can get emotive about and there are heavy cultural differences between the U.S.A./Europe/U.K. Which I don't see being sorted out peacefully.
So NO personal pops at each other and wind all your necks in please.
GB with Mod hat on.

Sent via smoke-signal from a woodland in Scotland.

No worries GB, said my piece. Apologies and all, just not impressed at the subject matter.

 

[Stevie777]

When i read the title i thought, Christ, what's the eejit up to now.

on topic. Having reviewed the video i can honestly say that that Bear has a extremely high tolerance level to extremely annoying whining.

Never thought i would utter these words in this forum, but yeah, Go Bear.

 

[Goatboy]

Cheers for the apology Dewi it's appreciated.

Have been discussing hunting elsewhere and it's an emotive subject but I don't see how slanging matches will ever change things. Folks just get entrenched. I'm all for good honest open debate but just want folks to keep it at that, a debate and not an argument.

Will leave it open for now but if it slides again I will have to close it as it's been reported elsewhere.

Cheers,
GB.

 

[santaman2000]

don't say it like you have a monopoly on being hunters though. Uk and europe have been at it for a very long time
There is just as much anti hunting sentiment your side of the pond as ours

True enough. You even seem to have a better (well, bigger anyway) group of falconers. That said, in another thread we established that the UK and Europe don't get opening day fever to the same extent entire towns here do. Such as closing schools for opening day and having prizes awarded for the first deer of the season, the biggest of the season, the biggest rack, etc. Expensive prizes such as a new hunting vehicle or a new rifle. And apparently you don't have many (if any) big game hunting shows still on tv or in public schools to excite the next generation.

On both sides most anti-hunting sentiment seems to come from those with the least knowledge of the sport. Particularly regarding big game hunting and/or bowhunting.

 

[santaman2000]

Massive difference between what you're saying and the argument from earlier. Hunting for food, there is a reason for it. You're going to eat it. You have not needlessly killed an animal for the fun of it. There was mention before about killing vermin, again, it's a reason that doesn't involve taking pleasure from killing.

Nobody has said the animals don't get eaten (apart from the vermin) Why would (or should) that take anything away from the pleasure of the hunt? Or why should that be the paramount reason to hunt? If food is my priority I'll go to Wally World. If having fun is the priority I'll go kill it.

 

[Andy BB]

Oops - I appear to have stirred up a hornets nest! Guess it was a gut reaction to seeing a few videos on youtube of bowhunters pin-cushioning a bison for "sport". Must have had ten arrows in it by the time it keeled over and bled out. The video of this woman's kill was carefully edited to not show the allegedly single kill-shot arrow - I wonder why? Surely the most important piece of the hunt!

I have killed rabbits and pigeon for food, but only took the shot if I could guarantee a head-shot and instant kill. Ditto fishing. I don't even object to fox-hunting - either the fox escapes, or is killed in a couple of seconds - probably a quicker death than it could expect in the wild from eventual starvation or killed by other predators when too weak to defend itself. The natural world is incredibly cruel if viewed from a human moral standpoint. But it is what it is. Just can't get my head around trophy hunters.

I also admit to a degree of illogicality. I'll happily put down poison to kill cockroaches; mouse and rat-traps in the house, destroy ants nests if they insist on entering my house. Kill off millions of bacteria or other miniature nasties if I have an infection. I'd never make a good Buddhist! Still can't get over trophy hunters though...........

 

[sunndog]

True enough. You even seem to have a better (well, bigger anyway) group of falconers. That said, in another thread we established that the UK and Europe don't get opening day fever to the same extent entire towns here do. Such as closing schools for opening day and having prizes awarded for the first deer of the season, the biggest of the season, the biggest rack, etc. Expensive prizes such as a new hunting vehicle or a new rifle. And apparently you don't have many (if any) big game hunting shows still on tv or in public schools to excite the next generation.

On both sides most anti-hunting sentiment seems to come from those with the least knowledge of the sport. Particularly regarding big game hunting and/or bowhunting.

We are more reserved about our hunting here, and there isnt ANY public access land where anyone can hunt (or even fish)
The rest is a question of scale. You are a young country, huge, and heavy with fruit. Britain is a tiny island of a 100 million people. Our last bear was killed they say no later than 1000AD
All we have as far as "big game" are deer. And those are generally owned and controlled by centuries old sporting estates. Which are Comparatively very difficult to hunt on.....never mind getting a rifle in the first place


i couldn't agree more with your last paragragh though. Non hunters will just never understand why we do it, not a problem for me they are quite entitled to think whatever they like

 

[Stevie777]

Britain is a tiny island of a 100 million people.

Eh...? Not wanting to be a nitpicker here, but you are only around 36 million out and the population is getting smaller.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33266792

 

[NothingRhymesWithRachel]

Eh...? Not wanting to be a nitpicker here, but you are only around 36 million out and the population is getting smaller.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33266792

64 million people in Britain approx 53 million of them are in England alone (talk about horrendously overpopulated lol). But yeah, 100 million is a biiiiit over the amount (god help us when THAT number gets reached!)

 

[dewi]

Non hunters will just never understand why we do it, not a problem for me they are quite entitled to think whatever they like

Completely understand why Sunndog, just happen to disagree with it. If the 'sport' needs no justification, then nor should those who disagree with it. Fair is fair

And now for something (not) completely different...

[video=youtube;O6Xo21L0ybE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6Xo21L0ybE[/video]

 

[santaman2000]

Oops - I appear to have stirred up a hornets nest! Guess it was a gut reaction to seeing a few videos on youtube of bowhunters pin-cushioning a bison for "sport". Must have had ten arrows in it by the time it keeled over and bled out. The video of this woman's kill was carefully edited to not show the allegedly single kill-shot arrow - I wonder why? Surely the most important piece of the hunt!........

Actually it does show the arrow striking when she makes the shot (at about the 2:06 mark) It's an obvious heart/lung shot to the bear's chest just inboard his right leg. At about 3:06 it shows here retrieving the arrow. Yes the video is edited for dramatic affect. So what? She's doing this for a living so it must be exciting for the tv audience.

We are more reserved about our hunting here, and there isnt ANY public access land where anyone can hunt (or even fish)
The rest is a question of scale. You are a young country, huge, and heavy with fruit. Britain is a tiny island of a 100 million people. Our last bear was killed they say no later than 1000AD
All we have as far as "big game" are deer. And those are generally owned and controlled by centuries old sporting estates. Which are Comparatively very difficult to hunt on.....never mind getting a rifle in the first place


i couldn't agree more with your last paragragh though. Non hunters will just never understand why we do it, not a problem for me they are quite entitled to think whatever they like

I'd say we're in agreement about more than just the last paragraph TBH.

 

[santaman2000]

....I have killed rabbits and pigeon for food, but only took the shot if I could guarantee a head-shot and instant kill.....

A head shot? I take it said critters were sitting still when you shot and you were using something other than a shotgun? So you don't shoot running rabbits or squirrels with a shotgun; or do any wing shooting?

 

[santaman2000]

.....I also admit to a degree of illogicality. I'll happily put down poison to kill cockroaches; mouse and rat-traps in the house, destroy ants nests if they insist on entering my house. Kill off millions of bacteria or other miniature nasties if I have an infection. I'd never make a good Buddhist! Still can't get over trophy hunters though...........

This is the first mention of "trophy" hunters. Until now we've mentioned hunting for food (but lets not confuse that with subsistence hunting for reasons that I'll discuss further down) and "sport" hunting which is also misnamed.

I don't want to confuse hunting for food with subsistence hunting because very few of us actually depend on it for our survival. The game meat is for us an added benefit. Likewise "sport" has a necessary implication of competition. While there may well be a sense of competition (whether with the quarry or with other hunters) it isn't an absolute necessity to make hunting "fun." And recall I said I hunt for fun. So any sense of, or satisfaction from, competition is another added benefit just as the meat.

Likewise with the "trophy." Yes I've mounted deer heads and will likely do so again if I get one big enough to warrant it. Said trophies are the same as the photos taken with the killed game or a stringer full of fish; momentos of a great time; so again, an added benefit rather than necessarily the primary reason for the hunt.

 

[santaman2000]

.....And now for something (not) completely different...

[video=youtube;O6Xo21L0ybE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6Xo21L0ybE[/video]

Nice video of a bear that will soon be shot raiding human camps (if it hasn't already been) People taking these videos with bears conditioned not to fear humans invariably cause the animal to do something that will ensure it's destruction. idiots down here feed the gators with the same results.

 

[Andy BB]

A head shot? I take it said critters were sitting still when you shot and you were using something other than a shotgun? So you don't shoot running rabbits or squirrels with a shotgun; or do any wing shooting?

No - I don't shoot stuff on the wing, or when they're moving. I'm not into injuring animals by potting away on the off-chance I'll injure it sufficiently to get to it. Hence I no longer use shotguns other than clay pigeon. I now only hunt with air-rifles, and only pull the trigger when I'm sure about the head shot. Sure, I could end up with a much larger bag if I hit anywhere on the body, but that's not me.

 

[sunndog]

Santaman, yes no doubt we'd agree on a lot of things shooting related

Dewi, without knowing you better i wouldn't be sure if you can understand what the hunt means to a hunter. I was born to it and its just a part of my being
personally what i hunt, i hunt for justifiable reasons but i respect your right to disagree. Fair is definately fair.....i tried to get that across in my last post but lunchtime was running short

Steve, ok the 100 million was waay out lol.....i was told at school 20 years ago it was 60 million so i added a good handfull for increased population plus all the ones we don't know about.....besides, it feels like 200 million at times
Still even if it was 100 million the amount of hunters in amongst them would still be tiny compared to the u.s

 

[Robson Valley]

All I can do is open my mouth to change feet.

 

[bigbear]

I cannot help feeling that it would all be a bit fairer, and more fun, if the animals had the same weapons as the hunters. Or say grouse all got a grenade.............