Bayonnet ID (pic heavy)

[leon-b]

Hi guys, my dad picked up a couple of Bayonetts, one old and one newish, and he was trying to find out exactly which ones they were, anyway i told him that i would put up some pics on here and see if you guys knew what they were.

First up, the older one :
blade - 245mm long, just under half of the handle is metal (the end bit) and the other piece is wooden, it also has a metal guard, on one side of the blade it says 43 cul and in the same place but the other side it says 4757, it also says 3168 at the top of the metal sheath

The newer one :
blade - 200mm long, handle looks to be made out of metal at each end and i think some sort of plastic in the middle, right at the end of the blade, etched into the metal it says 7569

Any ideas ?
thanks leon and dad

 

[spamel]

Looks like your older one is a K98 bayonet, as used by german troops during WWII.

http://www.surplusandoutdoors.com/ishop/images/877/BAYONET-GERMAN-K98.jpg

Looks pretty similar! Not sure on the second one though.

 

[spamel]

Second one is a german AK 47 bayonet, according to our friend google!

http://www.ak47bayonets.com/pic/010-065.jpg

 

[desert_emperor]

I have a bayonet the same as the K98 albeit with a plastic handle, but yes i believe its 1940's German.

Cheers....Paul

 

[leon-b]

thanks guys can you tell me anything about these ?
thanks ever so much
leon

 

[spamel]

The K 98 is a pretty decent bayonet, in fact my dad is in the Gross Deutschland reenactment company up in Yorkshire and he has a K98 bayonet and rifle, deactivated of course. The germans had some really good kit, this is evident in the stuff my dad has as some of it I've looked at and thought I could use it in my hobby! The clothing is all woolen and heavy duty cotton, and the stuff like the rifle and bayonet is made very robustly and efficiently in true german fashion.

The K98 bayonet seems to take a good edge, if you bought it to a view of using it for bushcraft, although the sheer length and design of the blade would make it inferior to a mora for general use. They obviously need to be cared for as the steel will rust if it isn't kept lightly oiled and scoured now and then to remove surface rust. We use scotch brite for cleaning rifle parts nowadays, although the new A2 SA80 isn't supposed to be touched by the stuff as it is too abrasive and removes the special protective coating put on some of the parts, or so they say!

What do you aim to do with them?

 

[leon-b]

thanks, no i wasnt think of using it for bushcraft, i think i'll stick to my mora, im not sure i think my dad might put it on ebay, any idea how much it would go for ?
thanks leon

 

[spamel]

That would all depend on whether it is a reproduction or an original model, also if it has been sharpened that will probably reduce its' worth. What people want these days is in original condition as much as possible, as for how you go about checking whether it is real or repro, no idea. They repro some kit so well these days it is hard to tell the difference!!

 

[leon-b]

ok, not sure if it is a repro or an original, it seems quite old and hasnt been sharpened it also has light rusting on the blade
how much would it go for if it was an original and if it was a repro ? any ideas ?
thanks for your help
leon

 

[spamel]

A quick look on Surplus and Adventure shows a price just under fifty quid for an original K98 bayonet. I did a google check and it throws up ebay stuff and I saw the S&A link so checked that out. Try googling for more info on the two bayonets.

 

[11binf]

spamel is correct.. the bayonet with the leather frog is for the german 98k rifle...the odd looking bayonet is the 1st issue AK-47 bayonet .....could be early E.G. issue or early issue to other commie countrys .....vince g. 11b inf

 

[leon-b]

i keep hearing stuff about the leather frog, what is it lol ?
leon

 

[spamel]

A frog is basically the sheath. Sometimes the sheath has a seperate belt loop that buttons on.

 

[Geuf]

the leather frog is the thingy that hold the metal sheath and attaches it to you belt. If this is the real deal it's a really nice example. and if you numbers on your sheath and bayonet are the same and the frog original it could be worth something. I don't know how much exacly. a bayonet with sheath wich have diffirent numbers on them (so they originally not belong to eachother) goes for around 50, 60 pound I think.
If you google 'german militaria' you'll find loads of collectors info like :
http://ww2germanmilitaria.com/
You should be able to find a right price. o, and please, please do not modify it (sharpen) it WILL decrease in value and it would be a pitty in general. but thats only in collectors eyes
By the way, what is this with german militaria on this forum. Someone else was talking about buying a german ww2 military smock

anyway, nice item. but not really suitable for bushcraft, lol.

 

[Tor helge]

The K98 bayonet is (if I remember correct) pre 1937. After 1937 the handle was made of bakelite.
I have one of each in my "collection".
Usually the name of the manufacturer is stamped in the blade near the "guard".

Tor

 

[leon-b]

no manufacturer stamp on this one but it definitely looks old and the handle isnt bakelite
leon

 

[cyclist]

both Avtomat Kalashnikov AK47 (compare that to Sturmgewehr 44, read a bit about Hugo Schmeisser and make your own coclusions) and K98 have been made over a long period of time, in various variants and by different manufacturers. K98 was first in military service in China. Lots of K98 have been used by the Israelis after WWII, the weapon is still in use with the Wachbattaillion, by hunters and in various so called "3rd world countries".

The K98 was produced in large numbers (it´s estimated that ~12 million in total have been made, data on production vary depending on source) under lincense, I can´t see any reason why the bayonnet wasn´t.
The K98 Bayonet without stamped ID could have been made at a time (between WWI and WWII) when the Krauts had no permission to fabricate arms for military purpose.

 

[JohnC]

.... my dad is in the Gross Deutschland reenactment company up in Yorkshire .....?

Was he in the group that took over a Yorkshire railway station last year? A mate was at that event and the pics and descriptions he brought back were pretty impressive!!!