batoning with a knife

[heath]

I've read a few posts recently where people have advised against batoning with a stick tang knife. Now if by batoning they mean hitting the back of the blade with a stick, I don't see what difference it would make whether it was a stick tang or a full tang. Has anyone got any experience with this? Most my knives are stick tangs and I've never had any problems.
Heath

 

[andy_e]

I split firewood by battoning my Frosts Clipper and I'm pretty sure it's a stick tang and not even a full length one at that. I find the thin blade splits through light sections of wood more readily that my 4mm thick, full tang knife.

 

[Draven]

General problem, as far as I can tell, is that if you're splitting a thick log you want as much of the length of the blade in as possible, so you might have to baton the handle rather than the blade. On a full tang, you're hitting the tang when you do this, but on a stick tang you're just hitting the handle which could cause it to split off entirely I would suspect, or bend the tang.
I don't think this should put you off stick tangs though - if you're going to be splitting logs that size, you should probably bring a hatchet or something larger like a Leuku anyway. If you do want one general purpose knife that covers all bases from whittling to splitting, you'd probably be best with a full tang. Otherwise, I'd say just a stick tang, a folder (or even just a small fixed blade) and a hatchet.

Peace

 

[Shinken]

Stick tangs are really good, there main weekness is at the intersection between tang and blade. Full tangs are thicker there and hence sronger.


Depends how they are made though

 

[Matt Weir]

I give the Frosts mora a good hammering when battoning wood and it been fine however I witnessed Mosquito Killer battoning with a mora and the knife broke in about 5 minutes so it could have been a fault in the handle on that particular knife.

I think that the general understanding is that a stick tang should be fine but of course a full tang will always be stronger.

 

[big_swede]

Stick tangs are really good, there main weekness is at the intersection between tang and blade. Full tangs are thicker there and hence sronger.


Depends how they are made though

the normal moras (red wooden handles) and most other scandi-stick tangs I've seen have triangular intersection between blade and tang (triangular when viewed lengthwise), which make them fairly strong.

The clippers and plastic handled moras which usually doesn't have full length tang seem to have rectangular tangs, almost the size of the blade.

No idea which ones are stronger. Never broke a mora by battoning though. I think the blade length limits the size of wood you wanna split and hence the force needed. Dried fire wood is harder to split than green wood. But if I'm splitting 'real' fire wood I seldom go for the mora.

 

[born2roam]

.... Never broke a mora by battoning though. ...

I managed to do exactly that and it surprised me.

Why? Well I knew it was 'weaker' then my F1, but I already had abused my Mora for so many things (batoning and more) and it withstood superbly!

So when it finally broke I was a bit astonished.... Still have the blade, lost the handle.

Probably will give it a try and make the blade into a small carving knife by covering the largest part of the blade with two wooden scales making a sort of stick tang with just the tip (and a bit more) protruding.

Quickly replaced my old wooden handled Mora with 3 other ones bought in the States (long off topic story, via www.ragweedforge.com)...
1 # 137 (Main knife with wooden handle and waxed leather sheath)
1 # 711 G (Try out....)
1 # 510 (Backup knife)

Only thing so far is that they are lousy with the firesteel!? Need to sort that out....

Just my 2 euro cents

Grtz Johan

 

[mmc1]

Here's a good article on batoning and why knives break.

http://www.barkriverknives.com/docs/batoning.pdf

 

[Toddy]

Thanks for posting that link; it makes a lot of sense and gives clear instructions of how to use, and not use, a knife for batoning.

cheers,
Toddy

 

[Dave Budd]

that's a great link and explains what I have tried to tell people when teaching them to batton (or when seeing them mis-using my knife ) I've never broken a knife battoning (partly becuase I own an axe and a saw) but I've noticed the leveriing effect through teh force applied to my hand when striking the tip.

A tip from one who regularly uses a hatchet and a maul to split large trees into little bits of wood (bowstaves and handles fro example): drive the knife into the wood as far as the width of the blade and then drive a wooden glu (wedge) in behind to open the split and finish the job

 

[Dave Budd]

Oh yeah, I love this bit btw:
"I guess you could call it bludgeoning or clubbing, but
batoning has a friendlier ring to it."



I just remembered a knife that I did ligthly damage through battoning. My first (and so far only) attempt at making a lock back knife was regularly in my pocket when out and about (not illegally of course) and I used it to split some firewood one night after a few beers, considering it safer than an axe I managed to loosen the joint a little while hammering it through some seasoned oak and apple. oops, don't try that at home

 

[John Fenna]

Although I have used a batton to split wood I have to agree with DB - wedges are safer and less likely to b*gg*r your knife!

 

[Pignut]

I've read a few posts recently where people have advised against batoning with a stick tang knife. Now if by batoning they mean hitting the back of the blade with a stick, I don't see what difference it would make whether it was a stick tang or a full tang. Has anyone got any experience with this? Most my knives are stick tangs and I've never had any problems.
Heath

If you strike the back of the blade (Not the handle or toards the weaker union) and dont try to pslit logs taht are to thick you will not have a problem

At least I never have!

 

[big_swede]

That link was an interesting read. Confirms my thought that the fault is usually in the user not the knife. So battoning is really like everything else in this game, skills..

 

[Matt Weir]

That link was an interesting read. Confirms my thought that the fault is usually in the user not the knife. So battoning is really like everything else in this game, skills..

It seems it is - thanks for that link mmc1, makes sense. However this emphasises the care to be taken with the Frosts mora when battoning as the tang is only a wee thing that goes just an inch, maybe 2 into the handle.

 

[Draven]

Great article, I hadn't thought about it that deeply Cheers!

 

[Burnt Ash]

I've never understood the attraction of battoning a knife. To me, it's knife abuse. Supposing one were in a survival situation and your knife was your only cutting tool. Would you risk bashing it with a big stick and breaking it? In other circumstances, you'd probably be better prepared and have other, more suitable tools for the job (axe, saw). In the first case, I wouldn't risk battoning. In the second, I wouldn't need to.

Burnt Ash

 

[big_swede]

Wouldn't need to? How do you go about making deep notches in hard wood? There is no risk in battoning if it's done properly (why would for instance mors recommend it? after all he has been teaching survival- and bushcrafttopics for a life time). Even when using an axe you risk damaging the handle.

On another note, I've given this stick tang battoning some thought, and I've used my sameknife (leuku) for battoning almost all concievable kinds of wood. Never had a problem. Good battoner or just lucky? Beats me

 

[gregorach]

I've always regarded battoning as one of the key techniques of bushy knife use. Done properly it presents no risk of damage. I've done it loads, sometimes with a really poor knife, and never had a problem. Just keep the tip lower than the handle and it's all good.

 

[TAHAWK]

When I took SAR training in 1964, we were taught "splitting wood with a knife" (Does that sound better than "clubbing"? )

I don't do it all that frequently. Most of the time, the wood burns "as is." Sometimes there is an axe about. But over the years I have done it dozens of times with all sorts of knives -- even (VERY carefully) a slipjoint pocket knife. No damage to the knives yet.