atlatl and archery

[stovie]

...at atlatl and dart, in the woods.

Atlatl made from Elder and trimmed to the appropriate point. Its's around 30" in length, but probably needs to be a bit shorter. Dart made from 5ft hazel with a diameter ranging from 1/2" to 1/4". Fletched for convenience with duct tape.

Wellsy in silhouette showing the mechanics....

Action shot. You can just make out the dart hurtling through the woods, top rightish...

Managed 35yds as a max range, and less said about accuracy the better

Good fun though....

 

[WhichDoctor]

Well after reading this thread yesterday and checking out some of the links I decided to get off my bottom and get chucking.

So I went for a walk round some local woodland, I found a nice strait hazel stem about 5-ft long and around 1-cm in diameter, I then found a nice piece of elder tree I cut a length containing tow nodes around 50-cm or the length of my forearm (I seem to remember reading somewhere that is a good length) I also found a 20-cm piece of wood which by tying a bit of string to the end I turned into a "Baton" which i found on thudscave.com grate link jerv.

I cut into the of elder till i got to the pith in one of the nodes removed the pith and fashioned the node on the end into a point like i sorehere. I thorough it looked like a nice easy way of doing it.

The baton was just a ruffed out version of this .

So Then i found a small piece of field without anyone walking around in it, my first throw with the spear-thrower and the bare hazel poll reached about 20-ft the second around 25-ft, they did go a little hight ill have to do a bit more practicing. anyway with the baton i didn't get as far but it did seem more accurate, because the string is rapped around the spear when you throw it the release gives the spear a fare bit of rifling. I was very impressed with the power of the spearthrower though, ill have to get some longer darts and have a go tuning and fletching them.

Alas the meat up is a bit far for me, but ill look forward to seeing the pics.

P.S. ill get some pics of my attempt when my dad gets back with the camera, and sorry about the confused approach to measuring ft - cm etc thats just how i think

 

[bent-stick]

I spoke to spta secretary on Sunday and it's a go with the insurance - I feel a bit more comfortable with having some backing in case a trespasser gets nailed. The event will be run "under the auspices of the SPTA". SPTA shoots are run as have-a-goes so there's no need for proper membership but you can if you want.

Somehow I have also got involved in running a primitive archery event next summer...more news when I've confirmed format and venue. If it comes off it will be an international event at a spectacular location...

 

[rich59]

My first atlatl chucking end had a hollowed out side branch forming a cup. But there were some practical problems - the back end of the spear would not stay in socket without my other hand pushing back on it at the start. Time for a redesign

I kept the back part of the side branch and hollowed out a little depression. This works better. I can now throw one handed

 

[bent-stick]

You might want to try undercutting the spur and hollowing your dart back. Then the downward force of gripping the dart is enough to keep it on the spur.

 

[kb31]

i made my thrower by puting a pot hanger notch on the end
same way just a bit deeper and more pointy
i have also seen them with a antler tip bound on
makeing one is easy
it's hitting something with it that's hard- am useless

 

[rik_uk3]

What a great thread

 

[jerv]

can't isert images! How's it done?
For throwing tips (accuracy is harder than distance!) check out the World Atlatl association website. There is a great article there comparing the effectiveness of spears against arrows and rifles. Spears do amazingly well for power so take care. I am trying to remeber if I was his bad when I started archery. I suppose the key is consistency. Findijng the right dart length and weight for you and sticking to it. I like the short darts but I think I'll graduate to onger darets as I become more profficient. Or maybe it was easier to make balanced short darts. it's all fun though.

 

[rich59]

I just want to say how amazed I am with the atlatl. To be able to whip a dart out at pace is amazing. I have been looking at why it is so good. As the atlatl is flipped over by the wrist it starts to bend the dart. At this point the dart is bending downwards and storing up energy with its springiness. Then as your atlatl gets to the top of the arc and starts to descend you are forcing the dart back straight again. This I think is the point where it gets a huge kick and flies out at amazing speed - leaping off the atlatl.

Pure speculation here - but what if an athlete javlin thrower were to use this idea? He would hold the javelin by the tail rather than the middle. He might need to steady the shaft with his other hand and have a standing throw. He would lead the throw with his elbow, flip his forearm over instead of the atlatl. The javelin would flex and straighten again and whip out - with the potential of considerable distance! Steve Backley - love to see you try this!

 

[WhichDoctor]

I've been looking around the web for spear throwers/atlatls and have seen references to stone age spear throwers from Europe, i also remember hearing about them before but I haven't been able to find any pictures. I thought it would be interesting to see how there design differed from native american ones. So does anyone have any pictures of them or know anywhere that mite have some?

 

[Grooveski]

Paleoplanet will have examples. Spear chuckers from all over crop up there.
Can't link you straight to any as the firewall here blocks the site but have a rummage about.
http://p081.ezboard.com/bpaleoplanet69529

If I remember right there were very few significant differences. Less/no(?) evidence of weights being used and more of exotic carvings on found artifacts.

 

[bent-stick]

Have a look at the thuds cave link posted by jerv. He has 5 links to europe and a few to arctic greenland and siberia.

 

[jerv]

Pm me your email adress I have quite a few pictures of paleolithic spear throwers. No weights as far as I know but then the weights area bit of an enigma anyway. I still haven't worked out how to put images on these forums. They also used a thing called a "baton de commandement" which may have been a form of spearthrower. however materials for european spearthrowers may be hard to find unless you know a friendly mammoth tusk dealer!

 

[WhichDoctor]

Lol thanks bent-stick, I looked all through that thuds cave site, i even looked at the batton but managed to miss all the other things in the European section . So now I've got two atlatls already, its as bad as the spoons .

Thanks for the offer jerv, there is a tutorial for inserting pictures here http://www.bushcraftuk.com/community/showthread.php?t=13734

Ill put some of my-own pics up as soon as I find my camera cable.

Edit: Here we are

Here they are, the top one is the first one I made out of elder. I left the bark on the handle because it gives very good grip and is easy on the hands.
The bottom is the new one baste on one of the thuds cave European designs made out of hazel.


Heres a close up of the elder atlatl. (sorry about the mud, you cant do anything outdoors at the moment without getting muddy )

And a close up of the new one.

This is a close up of the handle of the new atlatl. I thought id have an experiment with this one, I've seen some pics on the web of atlatls with handles like this and wondered what difference it makes. The two notches allow you to put your index and middle finger ether side of the handle. When you hold it like this it means you can have your arm strait out behind you when you throw, rather than having your arm bent as you have to when holding it normally. I haven't been able to test this yet outside the garden but i would think it would give grater range since your arm would start the throw from further back but mite not be as accurate.

This is a view of me holding the atlatl with the new grip.

P.S sorry about the feet i only just noticed .

 

[jerv]

They look perfect.
I'd look at attaching a leather loop around the "split grip" version not to hold it on to your wrist (for god's sake don't attach them to you!) but to give a more secure grip. Lot's of versions on the web. I've tried it but I think i left my handles too thick to get the most from it. feels very secure though.
How are the darts coming on?
I will post pictures, I will ,I promise. My lerather just arrived today though so I'll be busy for the next few days!!!!

 

[jerv]

first image!!!! tahnks which doctor. Me lobbing a dart with a speer schluder and embarasingly sticking my damn tongue out!

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[dommyracer]

Jerv, lemme help you out

You had an extra img tag around your pic

*edit - scratch that, it still doesn't work

 

[WhichDoctor]

They look perfect.
I'd look at attaching a leather loop around the "split grip" version not to hold it on to your wrist (for god's sake don't attach them to you!) but to give a more secure grip. Lot's of versions on the web. I've tried it but I think i left my handles too thick to get the most from it. feels very secure though.
How are the darts coming on?
I will post pictures, I will ,I promise. My lerather just arrived today though so I'll be busy for the next few days!!!!

Yes im looking at making some leather loops for the second one, I thought I'd wait till I've tried it out properly first (inkase the grip needs adjusting).

My first dart was grate, I made it out of hazel on a walk at the same time as the elder atlatl. To start with I was throwing it bare without any flights because I couldn't find any feathers. Anyway then I brought it home and shaped it a bit more put some duck-tape flights on it (still couldn't find any feathers) and took it out again. On my second throw I lost it, Im still baffled as to how you can lose a 5ft dart with silver duck-tape flights on one end and a wad of white cloth on the other (for safeties sake) in a hedge 2ft wide. So for the moment im using 6ft bamboo canes I got after cleaning out the greenhouses for the winter. Half of them were way too thick but the other half are grate, just got to go somewhere I can try them out properly now, the gardens got too many sheds and greenhouses in it.

Nice pic by the way, it looks like you've got lodes of space .

 

[rich59]

I am losing my bamboo darts too! They just disappear!

But any advice on tipping them to stick into a target?

 

[jerv]

I inserted a hardwood (hornbeam) insert tipped with a field point (11/32) with the hard wood it was about the right weight but when it hit the target the insert went up the bamboo and shattered it ! keep detachable points close to the joints in the bamboo I suppose for competition purposes make sure the insert isn't detachable (unlike hunting points) as it would be a pain to loose them.
more important then target penetration is that the dart head is what causes the acceleration and stability of the dart (read Perkins and Baugh et al. for more on the physics of spear throwing).
I took the pic at work. sadly I don't have muich space as my long suffering girlfriend will gladly tell you.

spear tips. One is an 11/32" field point at 125 grains which has proven fine for light darts the second is a medieaval crossbow head 1/2"at 2oz not too pretty though

dowels I don't think will qualify for the primitive section as the technology to make dowels is form the iron age. What about bamboo?? For some reason I don't think it shouldd count as primitive due to it's unavailability to non asian stone agers.
atlatl designs

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