Arctic Race

[vertyop]

hello,

I'm new to the forum and new to bushcraft.
I recently got back from a week kayaking and canoeing around the islands near Stockholm and want to start planning my next trip.

I have a few questions however;

As me and my friends would like to raise money for charity we want some quite extreme conditions(arctic maybe alpine) but I'm finding it quite hard to find a good location to start researching. North of Sweden mayhaps? Siberia?
So my first question would be: Where would be a good european place to experience the Arctic?

My second question; as we dont want to waste time in hotels, exploring the cities etc.. what would be the quickest way of reaching this location? IE. Local airports, travel to and thro.

My third is are go-pro cams worth it? As half the goal for this is to raise money, we would like proof/a movie to show for it.

I look forward to hearing from you,
Charlie

 

[Andy BB]

I'll leave others to reply to the technical questions! (although several friends speak very highly of Go Pro (although admittedly not in Arctic conditions...))

However, I will raise a query on how well-prepared - both in equipment and knowledge - you will be for Arctic climates, particularly as you say you are new to bushcrafting!

 

[Teepee]

Hi Charlie, welcome to the forum.

Do you have any extreme cold experience?

 

[bambodoggy]

1) Norway, Sweden or Finland would suit your purposes (but if you want cold and snow without actual Arctic then you've got everywhere from Scotland to Eastern Europe to look at).
2) Which airport rather depends which country and then which part of the country you chose.
3) In my experience yes, GoPro cams are worth it but they will require special looking after up in the north as with anything electrical and they will need recharging.

Hope that helps......oh and please tell us you are going within an organised group because if you haven't been to the arctic in winter before then a jolly camping trip for beginners it is not! It is NOT like a cold day in the UK....yes it can be magical and yes it can be beautiful....but a place for beginners on their own it is NOT.

Maybe go and have a read through the Sub Zero section here, I've noticed quite a few of the lads on here having been getting into winter trips in the last few years, their stories, reports and reviews should give you a little more idea why you need to train up to these things and not dive in before you are maybe ready.

Cheers,

Bam.

 

[vertyop]

Thanks for your quick responses!

We are planning on getting some experience with the cold before we go, however that will be limited to what we can get to in Scotland or France, but we are going to have a few practise runs initially to practise as a team, the techniques and to deal with the cold/snow.

Are there any better alternatives to the GoPro for cold conditions?

yet again, a huge thanks!

 

[Teepee]

Scottish winters are very hard, a great grounding for venturing off to the colder parts. It will teach you how to handle wet cold and vicious winds. It won't prepare you for the dry cold that resides up there. Deep dry cold doesn't feel that cold and it lulls you into a false sense of security. Things freeze in seconds.

I applaud you for your adventurous thoughts but please think long and hard about yours and your groups safety. Personally, I wouldn't entertain going in a group where no-one has experienced consistent temps below -20 c at a minimum. No-one knows how their body will react to the extreme environment.

 

[vertyop]

Due to the consistency of the advice I think maybe pushing the Arctic trip would be a good idea! Do you think experience the Scottish Winter for a few trips would be substancial training or would we need to increase the difficulty/extremeness of the enviroment gradually before moving onto the more dangerous areas such as Siberia?

Yet again, thank you for your responses!

 

[Teepee]

Siberia is in another leaugue of difficulty for us Brits, needs to be done with a outfit or lengthy planning. There are many more considerations there-weapons, travel, visas, diplomatic issues etc. Siberia has temps that are unsurvivable without heated shelter.

My advice would be to get winter training done in Scotland or somewhere alpine, then do a training trip to higher latitudes in scandiavia with some professional instruction. There are very capable professionals on here that can provide all that or recommend another trainer.

Once the group has had some experience of the deep cold and received proper training, you may be able to move forward on further planning. The training will cost but will potentially open up the higher latitudes to you in much greater safety.

 

[Wayland]

Two very different kinds of cold. Scotland can teach you a great deal about wet cold, even when it is not frozen, and in many ways that is more difficult to deal with. Most insulation fails when water is added to the mix and strong wind just makes things worse.

It's not all about being waterproof either, moisture comes from the body too and in the cold, ice build up in textiles can stop many of the so called "breathable" waterproof fabrics from venting that moisture.

Dry cold can be just as brutal, but at least if you can keep your gear dry and prevent build up of moisture from perspiration in the layers things should work as they are supposed to. You can often dispense with the waterproof shells here because you are effectively in a frozen desert.

Perhaps the worst of all situations is when you get cycles of freezing and thawing, as we often do in Europe. You need twice as much gear and rigorous routines and personal admin or things can go pear shaped with remarkable speed.

The word "race" in your title worries me slightly. That sounds like exactly the sort of way to get sweaty and damp in your gear. That might work OK while you are moving but could become very dangerous when you stop.

Good advice already given but I would also add. If you are doing this for the first time make sure you have a warm retreat available, very close by. (Think minutes rather than hours.)

Experience counts for a lot in this environment. Will any of your crew recognise that the cranky behaviour of another is an early sign of hypothermia or just dismiss it as someone having a bad day? Will they know what to do about it before it is too late? Are people confident enough to admit they are having problems or will they just keep up appearances until it becomes a casualty situation? A "stiff upper lip" in sub zero conditions could require dramatic surgery or possibly even funerals later on.

The Arctic is a wonderful place when things work as planned but as the old saying goes, "No plan survives first contact with the enemy." and if you under estimate it, the cold can very quickly become your enemy.

For cameras in cold places swapping batteries for warmer ones from your pockets works well for short periods but that might not be practical for filming. I use external battery packs that can be kept warm inside my clothing and power the camera with an umbilical cable. I don't know if that feasible with the GoPro but with digital equipment it is usually the batteries that let you down first followed by the LCD screens freezing.

 

[forestwalker]

You want to do a race in "arctic" conditions? There are footraces (ultamarathons, etc) run in northern Sweden, but that is in summer. There are some sled dog races in northern Sweden and Norway. Basically, if you are talking winter then you are talking skis or snowshoes, in summer you can do it as a runner (or even MTB). If you go up north you can expect some snow even in summer, but generally we are talking about snow free conditions in Scandinavia (unless you go up in the mountains).

If you want to push yourselves without a support structure -- organized race -- then go get actual practice. In particular if you are planning on doing it in winter. There are groups in Sweden and Finland offering winter survival training. If I push the one I'm involved with I may get banned, not being a full member, PM if you are interested).

 

[vertyop]

Yet again, thank you so much for the responses! A lot of useful information has been given!

The race part in the title is misleading, what the plan would be is a point-to-point, so starting in one location and finishing in a designated end point instead of just camping in one location, I can see how under the 'circumstances' this can be very misleading, so my bad ^.^

I think the plan will most probably be a couple of trips to Scotland and then maybe heading for a Nordic/Scandinavian Expedition/training course.
I think a lot of the information online about Arctic trips is slightly misleading; given that there is always mention of the cold and ahrdships but never quite to the extremity that has been explained now. However I guess that comes down to my fault in looking at the blogs/posts of proffessionals.

Charlie

 

[Wayland]

Worth checking out some of the post and trip reports in the Sub Zero section of this forum.

Lots of good information there from less professional types like myself.

 

[bambodoggy]

Nice one mate, that's a much more balanced approach. I was a little worried we'd all scare you off but that's a great attitude you have

I'm sure you'll do well in your endeavours and if any of us can help with further questions then do let us know

Weyland, not that I suspect you need to know lol but you could easily run a mini USB cable from a power monkey or similar power source inside your clothing straight out to a GoPro so long as the amps where up to it on your power source.....and GoPros don't have screens at all (well you get an attachable one with the Black version or can buy as an extra for the Silver or White versions). Hark at me.....sound like a Gopro sales rep lol (I'm not btw).

 

[Ruud]

I have this trip in mind after some more training:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordkalottleden_Trail

You can maybe do a part of it in winter-time.

 

[Teepee]

Glad we have been some help to you Charlie. Glad you've taken the advice the right way too, some don't. It's very easy for us to sound like over-cautious Grandads but it's not meant that way. Rather see you enjoy it than lose fingers or fly back in a body bag

Please keep us updated on your expoits, It'd be great to see how you are getting on. I did what you are planning to do a few years ago, best decision I ever made.

I'd recommend doing the Scandinavian training and then start looking at where you want to go, it'll be much easier afterwards and local advice is golden.

Again, please don't hesitate to ask if you have any other questions.

 

[Wayland]

I'm a "stills" man BD, I really haven't looked much at the GoPro stuff or anything else in the "movie" market.

Just assumed they suffered the same sort of problems as most other hi-tech in the cold.

 

[Ruud]

In regards to the GoPro question, I have a GoPro 3 Silver edition. It does its job but you'll need A LOT of extra batteries and accesories (LCD-screen, batterypack,...) in order to get the footage exactly how you want it. It does function well in the cold (minus 20°) but the batteries drains 3 times as fast.

The new GoPro3 Black + is the very best, but for that price I'd rather invest in a camera with HD-filming capabilities.

 

[bambodoggy]

I'm a "stills" man BD, I really haven't looked much at the GoPro stuff or anything else in the "movie" market.

Just assumed they suffered the same sort of problems as most other hi-tech in the cold.

Lol....I'd guessed that, hence, I said you prob didn't need to know......was sort of answering you but for the benefit of other readers if that makes sence

Ruud....I thought all GoPros filmed in HD? am I wrong? (I could be....it's even happened once before lol ).

 

[Ruud]

indeed, all Go Pro's film in HD but every single clip needs to be converted two times before you really see the top quality it can deliver. They need some getting used to at first before you really get nice footage and graphic-quality. At first all I got was wrongs angles and grainy graphics, untill I started reading on GoPro-forums. A 'normal' camera is easier in use.

The big plus for Go Pro is that you can get crazy points of view (like attaching it on your boot to get side-view on a snowscooter, 2 cm's away from a tyre, on your head...) and the waterproof case.

 

[bambodoggy]

Cool....I'm just starting out with mine really and generally only use it slung under my dji phantom to take arial vids of mates and staff climbing and dismantling trees.

Might take it skiing as a helmet cam next year too