Anvil alternatives

[badgeringtim]

Im looking for something to use as an anvil, for the use of pounding things on.

I have heard railway track is a great substitute but no idea where to get any from, legally. I occasionaly work on railways so keep my eyes open but not found anything yet!

I was looking at coblers'lasts' which are cast small shoe shaped tripod units which were used for riveting and tacking soles on shoes, but this does look a little like it will shear as the arms are a bit thin, but good for riveting on sheaths etc.

Any good ideas and even better any which i might actually be able to get hold of!
Thanking you!

 

[Tadpole]

Depends on how big an area you need to work on, a sledge hammer head set into a a log is strong enough to forge most thing (i'd guess) but the head is only 3" to 5" across,

 

[Neumo]

Thats a good idea, as I am also looking for a small portable anvil. I have a video where they have set bits of railroad track into cemment inside of a 8" paint tin.

I was also looking at a lump of steel in my favorite tool shop that was 4"x4"x8" which they had for sale for a £5. That would be big enough to bash out a small knife or flint striker, while being small enough to be portable i.e. pick it up & chuck it in the car. I might mount it on a foot long off cut of wooden railroad sleeper if I can work out how to do that. I dont know if epoxy or no-more-nails would be up to the job? Maybe mount it on another square bit of 5-8mm steel with liquid metal. Just a few ideas I have been having.

 

[Matt.S]

These things aren't alternatives to anvils, they are alternative forms of anvil!

Find the heaviest piece of steel that you can. Steel plate over 2" thick is good. Rail and heavy bar-section is also good, but only if set on end. The small face doesnt matter, so long as it's even a little bit bigger than your hammer-face. Tadpole's suggestion of a big old hammer-head works just fine. Avoid girder/I-beam/H-beam/RSJ if you can, it's designed to be light for its size and springy, which is exactly what you don't want in an anvil.

Cast iron anything will make for a poor anvil at best, no matter what the manufacturer/distributer might say. The two exceptions being cast-iron anvils with a steel face welded on [virtually non-existant in this country] and ductile heat-treated iron [still inferior to mild steel].

London-pattern anvils are quite easy and cheap to get hold of in the UK.

 

[Everything Mac]

London-pattern anvils are quite easy and cheap to get hold of in the UK.

well - assuming you have a couple of hundred quid burning a hole in your pocket then yes. Most anvils I see on the bay are all miles away from me.


here is a list in order of personal preference when it comes to anvil substitutes

RR track
Sledge hammer head
Fork lift truck tine
Caterpillar track
Block of steel.


mounting a piece of fork lift truck tine on a block of steel or RSJ works well.

My own portable anvil is made from a section of RR track. - It works pretty well.

neumo - buy that lump of steel mate - it will work well enough.

as Matt said - it doesn't matter how big your forging area is - as long as it is slightly bigger than the hammer head. - I know guys who used a sledge hammer head for quite a while before getting a proper anvil.

atb
Andy

 

[Matt.S]

Neumo that piece of steel would be very good and a good price. You can certainly do a lot more than small knives and strikers on such an anvil.

You'd want to make as much of the height as you can. An anvil should be mounted somewhere between knuckle and wrist height, with the arm hanging straight down at the smith's side. Smaller work = smaller hammer = higher. Bigger work = bigger (possibley sledge) hammer = lower. Most importantly it should be mounted securely. I have heard that silicone is very good for mounting anvils.

At least one edge should have the corner rounded over a tad. This strengthens forged shoulders by leaving them with a radiused inside corner rather than a square, stress-focussing one which would be prone to fracture. Such a radiused edge also reduces marks when bending or scrolling over the edge of the anvil.

 

[FGYT]

Ive an old 14 lb sledge head i use in the workshop as a metal lump for Center punching etc and was goingto use it for an anvil for some light forging but have now inhereted a proper anvil from my father in law who had it for 50 odd yrs from his father in law Guess Holly's future to be when he turns up will have to like lumps of metal
( I do intent to conduct the meet my Dad bit in the garage while Grinding a large knife preferably while my old mates one ex SF and one a big armed copper are having a beer to )

also found a perfect Adze Swage in his garage to along with a pile of large old files


if you want to see what you can do with a small light portable anvil have look at Dave Budds demo kit

ATB

Duncan

 

[Neumo]

Good advive there. I will see if I can get that lump of steel at the weekend. Thanks

 

[Mojoracinguk]

Would mild steel block be too maleable? (not into forging but pretend to be an engineer at work)
Just thought repeated beating of cooling/hardening steel would leave ripples/dings/dents etc in the surface.

Tougher items like the sledge head I totally agree with.

But if you are using it within limits then the steel block would be fine.


I assumed it was a mild steel blockor other soft steel.

This really is a learning post as i would like to know about the composition of anvils...if you'd care to impart some knowledge this way

 

[Matt.S]

Mild will work just fine if you're forging hot steel. Okay it'll slump a little with heavy use and it might wear a little faster than a harder steel but it works fine. Mild steel a a yellow heat is like wet, slightly stiff clay. High-carbon steel is a little harder at working temperature, but still softer than cold mild. H13 or S7 on the other hand

Anvil metallurgy isn't usually very complex. A very good-quality modern cast-steel anvil will probably have around .50-.70 carbon and perhaps a few toughening ingrediants.

 

[Neumo]

I assumed it was a mild steel blockor other soft steel./QUOTE]

Not sure what kind of steel it is but I will ask at the weekend. I saw it & thought, that would make a nice portable anvil. They do proper ones for £100 to £300 but dont have the space or a place I can bash metal at home. It will help to get me started, which is the main thing.

 

[Tengu]

The Japanese smiths made their swords (and my knife) on a wee bit of rectangular steel.

Im sure they would have been delighted with a bit of railway track...

...it would have been perfect for their next blade.

Have a word with your local scrap man, Im sure he will find something suitable.

 

[ged]

Have a word with your local scrap man, Im sure he will find something suitable.

Recycling specialist, please!

Seriously, that's good advice. Most scrap merchants will be only too pleased to get rid of heavy lumps of steel because they're too thick to go through their metal chewing machinery. Don't let them fleece you for it though, they have that kind of reputation. Scrap steel fetches anything between practically nothing and about 100 quid per tonne depending on the state of the economy. I bought a lovely anvil from the local scrap merchant for 40 quid. Best 40 quid I ever spent. It weighs about 400lb, you can really build up your arm muscles trying to bend it.

You could also try looking in the Yellow Pages for local fabrication shops, try to find a firm that makes heavy duty stuff. They will have guillotines that can cut through two inch steel plate as easily as you cut through paper with a pair of scissors. Ask to look in their scrap bin (it will be a big skip somewhere in the yard) and if you find a bit that's a bit too heavy they might even offer to chop it up into manageable sizes for you.

For these purposes you don't really need to worry about steel's metallurgy, you just need as big a lump of steel as you can reasonably lug about if you're going to. You could drill and bolt several pieces together if you wanted to make it more easily portable, you could make a stand that way too. Some smaller anvils come with a chunky stand.

A lot of engineering companies go bankrupt every year, check out the auctioneers and ask for a catalogue. You could end up with a real beauty of a small anvil for next to nothing if you're lucky, but it really is down to luck on the day. For things like this it's best to treat is as a bit of fun -- mooch around waiting for a good opportunity rather than treating it as a shopping expedition. Don't get sucked into a bidding war.

People are right to say that cast iron is no good, it's far too brittle and could be dangerous because bits can fly off like shrapnel. The same goes for some hammer heads, don't hit two hammers together if they're cast. If you use a sledgehammer head be careful that it's forged and not cast iron for the same reason. Protective gear is advisable, especially for the eyes and ears.

 

[markheolddu]

You could try salvage yards There are companies that deal in railway line and sleepers. Also have you thought about farm sales, interesting items turn up sometimes like anvils and large weights.

Mark

 

[irishlostboy]

I-beam section will do the trick in a pinch. bed it in well to a good big bit of wood though.
the main problem with alternetive anvils is power return. on a good anvil you will get about 70% (made up figure) of the force you deliver with the hammer given back on the other side of the work from the anvil. lighter materials will tend to just "spring" your work back at you giving you less effect for your effort and more asimetry (next bushcraft skill to learn: spelling) to your effort. but hey, even a bit o rock will do if you need it to.

 

[WolfCrafter]

I'll keep my eyes peeled for you tim in the area, a few scrap metal places nr Bury St Ed's!!