Air gun licencing, part deux

[British Red]

I can make exactly the same argument about alcohol consumption Mary. Many people will not go into town centre on a weekend evening for fear of drunken louts, fights, vomiting in the street. That certainly inconveniences and frightens many responsible people. Surely, objevtively, more people are frightened, inconvenienced and actually harmed by drunks? Why not tackle the bigger problem?

 

[Toddy]

Because not everyone has a gun, but everyone has a throat

The alcohol abuse is an issue, so is gun abuse, but to conflate the two to try to score point isn't a good argument.
After all, one could bring in the car fatalities, but folks still want to drive.......and hey, guess what ? they are licenced

M

 

[Wook]

Drinking licenses! The gubment says 21 units of alcohol per week is safe, so each week you get a card with 21 units marked on it. Every time you buy one your card gets stamped.

When the police spot drunks in the street they can say:

"'Ello 'ello 'ello - wots all this then?

Do you have a license for operating this inebriation?"

 

[British Red]

Because not everyone has a gun, but everyone has a throat

The alcohol abuse is an issue, so is gun abuse, but to conflate the two to try to score point isn't a good argument.
After all, one could bring in the car fatalities, but folks still want to drive.......and hey, guess what ? they are licenced

M

Everyone has a throat, but not everyone drinks to excess - or even drinks alcohol at all. Its not a "conflation" - its a direct and relevant parallel.

Both are activities that people choose to engage in.
Both have minorities that do them irresponsibly
The irresponsible use of either can alarm and occasionally endanger the public.

That seems like a good reason to treat them in a similar way.

One however causes is far more likely to

greatly inconvenience and frighten people

.

I genuinely believe it is far more sensible to licence alcohol than airguns - it would certainly save more lives.

 

[Scots_Charles_River]

I was shot at whilst climbing at Rosyth, by young teenagers, so ban them for under 21s.

 

[Toddy]

Be good if there were free classes to have a plink in communities, to educate youngsters in just what a pellet can do.
I don't see anything wrong in showing them the effects of same in say a dead squirrels head or torso or even pics of pellets in human 'accidents'.

Now I think that's a practical suggestion
How the animal rights extremists would take it might be a bit interesting though



No disagreement there BR, but since pubs are already licenced, and alcohol heavily taxed, what would you suggest ? compulsary imprisonment ? hard labour? we can't send folks to the colonies now, the stocks for public scorn and abuse ?

One social issue per consultation document apparantly

cheers,
M

 

[Man of Tanith]

I genuinely believe it is far more sensible to licence alcohol than airguns - it would certainly save more lives.

alcohol is licenced though, although it is the seller rather than the consumer, i belive air rifles are as well in that way?
both alcohol and any form of firearms need education as well as legislation in my opinion

 

[andybysea]

Im all for shooting lessons for air rifles,so long as its voluntary or free not ''do you want to buy that air rifle? have you bought your license? now whilst your paying for them dont forget a cover,oh and pellets,you also have to now pay for lessons,at the club you have to pay to join'' and dont forget the secure cabinet,that you also have to pay for,all makes for mucho dosh. I did go to a club when i got my very first air gun 30 odd years ago,but also used to shoot in back garden(my dad was a cop,our neighbour was a cop but no problem) i went on to own many over the years never got into trouble or caused mayhem with them alas dont think my lad will be so lucky to experiannce this.

 

[British Red]

No disagreement there BR, but since pubs are already licenced, and alcohol heavily taxed, what would you suggest ? compulsary imprisonment ? hard labour? we can't send folks to the colonies now, the stocks for public scorn and abuse ?

One social issue per consultation document apparantly

cheers,
M

An alcohol ownership licence? Same as an airgun ownership licence.

You have to have one to buy alcohol. If you get drunk in public, drink drive, commit voilent crime, anything of the sort, your alcohol consumption licence is revoked. Say a £30 fee to renew it, photo ID included. Same as an airgun lcience. If you want to buy alcohol - in a pub, off licence or supermarket, you have to show your licence. Selling or giving alcohol to someone without a licence would be an offence.

Sure it would be an inconvenience and expense for the law abiding majority - but so is an airgun lcience.

Simples - but the alcohol licence will save more lives and reduce town centre drunkeness, reduce violent crime and even murder.

 

[Everything Mac]

I imagine if/ when it happens that it will go the way of brocock air rifles.

I.e. of the say 150,000 known rifle sales only a very small fraction were actually registered and licensed. I don't remember the exact figures but it was a very small fraction indeed.

Suffice to say those who did licence their brocock air guns were effectively conned out of the cost of an fac and more than a few weapons simply "went missing" ie stuck under the bed and not spoken of again.



It could work in theory. But let's face it the only people it will ever affect are the law abiding citizens who likely use them responsibly anyway!

 

[British Red]

The only people it will ever affect are the law abiding citizens who likely use them responsibly anyway!

Exactly this.

 

[Toddy]

The biggest hinderance to your suggestion BR is simply that the majority do not want that, but they appear to want guns licenced.

On the other hand, if everyone who has a dislike of the proposed legislation goes and joins in the consultation process, they might actually get their point across. It's up in black and white on the link given in the first post.

cheers,
M

 

[Faz]

No need to licence because the idiots that shoot people with air weapons will do it without a licence.

 

[British Red]

The biggest hinderance to your suggestion BR is simply that the majority do not want that, but they appear to want guns licenced.

cheers,
M

You may well be right - that doesn't make it logical or consistent though. There are lots of things that opinion polls indicate the majority want that aren't law of course.

 

[Toddy]

You may well be right - that doesn't make it logical or consistent though. There are lots of things that opinion polls indicate the majority want that aren't law of course.

Very true; but this one seems to have gotten onto the committe stage

M

 

[British Red]

Yep its a crying shame, illogical and unenforceable since any with bad intent can simply walk across the border, buy one and walk back with it. It will though hugely inconvenience the law abiding - and drive many young people away from the sport. It will hit the poorest hardest as such fees invariably do.

All I can suggest is for everyone to get involved in the consultation and lobby hard against the legislation.

 

[Wook]

All I can suggest is for everyone to get involved in the consultation and lobby hard against the legislation.

Consultations are not referendums.

When they do not produce the desired results they are usually ignored.

 

[British Red]

I agree entirely Wook - but silence is generally taken as assent - ignored if you do and damned if you don't!

 

[andybysea]

By British Red,

''illogical and unenforceable since any with bad intent can simply walk across the border, buy one and walk back with it. It will though hugely inconvenience the law abiding - and drive many young people away from the sport. It will hit the poorest hardest as such fees invariably do''.
100% spot on! i can only assume one or all of these three things-1 To get votes,2 to raise money,3to get rid of airguns from Scotland or at least significantly reduce the numbers of the legitimate ones,as alot will not want the hassle of jumping through hoops to own in the future what they can own at the minute hoop free.

 

[dwardo]

I think it will just put a barrier in the way for people who just want to take up the sport casually.
Whilst I think its always a good idea to take the gun out of the chimps hands it just never works like that as it doesn't with Fire arms.

Wish I could come up with a idea that addresses both of my points but I have nothing besides common sense which cant be legislated.