Air gun licencing, part deux

[knifefan]

It seems that there is always a knee jerk "anti" legislation brigade willing to jump in when any new form of licencing is mentioned!! Air weapons are aptly named - they are essentially weapons and as such can maim and cause injury!! I have no problem with responsible ownership and use of such weapons. My last three "air guns" have been FAC as I need the added power for pest control on my property and I have no issues with having to obtain such a licence!!!!
Anyone who is involved with these type of guns knows that for a relatively small sum most decent "legal" (upto 12 f/lbs) air rifles can be modified to produce significantly higher power (the most I've seen is a logun 16 that was brought up to 53 ft/lbs!!!!!!!!) I would imagine that there are quite a few guns out there that have been modified and are in the hands of un-licenced people (responsible or not)
If you want to "plink" get yourself a BB gun

 

[Robbi]

you need a license for an air gun here in NI.............so what.

 

[Laurentius]

I know there are already a lot of laws that are different in Scotland than England, but doesn't it just complicate matters when there is no defined border as such, no customs and passport control, so you can easily cross in and out of Scotland, be legal one moment and illegal the next.

 

[Toddy]

We already have different laws about several sports.
Fishing for instance. Canoeing on rivers and lochs is another. Generally we can and the English can't......that said though, fish on the wrong river and expect to not only forfeit the rod and tackle, but the car that took you there too.

My gut reaction is to beef up the laws we already have with more education and police resources, because I really can't see how they'll get all of the guns registered. Age and redundancy and more amnesties, I suppose

I'm wondering if it was thought to be an easier cause than the ranting of the, 'carry a knife, go to jail', one. The (insert appropriate adjective of choice) person promoting that one means 'any' knife. I can just see all the granny's picnics going rapidly downhill the reality is though that the majority don't 'need' an airgun, while every household has knives; pointy ones even.

M

 

[British Red]

Ahhh but granny could always slice the cake before going on the picnic. No need to take a knife along. Shows a darker motive.

It'll come - we have seen enough knife hysteria to know it.

Its the same as gun hysteria in that respect.

It has no effect on criminals....because they are criminals.

In general ....we have enough laws. It is already illegal to treapsass with an airgun, shoot someone with an airgun, threaten someone with an airgun, point an airgun at someone, carry an uncovered airgun in a public place, shoot an airgun so that the shot falls on someone elses land.....and so on ad nauseam.

Do anything wrong with any form of gun is already illegal. If people don't care about those laws, think one more will make a difference? I do - but only to the people who weren't commiting crimes in the first place - who are not the problem.

 

[Toddy]

....not a granny, but I like to cut my fruit fresh

A neighbour complained about another neighbour's son who was firing his air pistol in the back garden. The pellets weren't exactly going where they should, iimmc. The police said that apart from passing on her concerns there was nothing they could do since the lad was shooting in his own garden. Ricochets didn't count apparantly
Anyway, then the child was killed in Glasgow by the waste of breath who was stoned out of his skull but managing to take pot shots at a fire engine
The lad who was firing his air pistol in the back garden found himself getting an earful from his Mum and the gun ended up in the bin. That must have happened to thousands of them; folks genuinely did not realise that the guns, mostly thought of as toys for boys, could (and did) kill a child.
Since then more and more seem to see no point to the guns. Those who use them for taking out vermin, or shooting for the pot, or indeed club target shooting, are one thing; but to have one, "just because" or "to play with", is not generally considered acceptable any longer.
Times change. It's not set in stone ( or on the Statute Books) yet. We'll see.

M

 

[atross]

The VCR bill brought in tighter rulings on the sale of air guns, is there anything out there that shows the impact of this legislation?

 

[Toddy]

From the consultation paper thingie.....on the link on the first post Puddock made.

am keen to make Scotland Safer and Stronger, and the statistics published on firearms offences earlier this month show that we are making good progress. Recorded offences involving firearms in 2011-12 have fallen by 21 per cent compared to last year and are now at a 34 year low. Air weapons offences have fallen 17 per cent; 195 air weapons offences were recorded last year, compared to 234 in 2010-11. I believe that these continuing reductions are due to the hard work of the police and ..................firearms campaign which ran in summer 2009 and highlighted the dangers of air weapons.

cheers,
Toddy

 

[knifefan]

....not a granny, but I like to cut my fruit fresh

A neighbour complained about another neighbour's son who was firing his air pistol in the back garden. The pellets weren't exactly going where they should, iimmc. The police said that apart from passing on her concerns there was nothing they could do since the lad was shooting in his own garden. Ricochets didn't count apparantly
Anyway, then the child was killed in Glasgow by the waste of breath who was stoned out of his skull but managing to take pot shots at a fire engine
The lad who was firing his air pistol in the back garden found himself getting an earful from his Mum and the gun ended up in the bin. That must have happened to thousands of them; folks genuinely did not realise that the guns, mostly thought of as toys for boys, could (and did) kill a child.
Since then more and more seem to see no point to the guns. Those who use them for taking out vermin, or shooting for the pot, or indeed club target shooting, are one thing; but to have one, "just because" or "to play with", is not generally considered acceptable any longer.
Times change. It's not set in stone ( or on the Statute Books) yet. We'll see.

M

Must be different again in England!!! I always understood that shooting air weapons on your own property is fine - so long as your pellets don't pass your boundaries or you are not within 50ft of a public footpath!!!!!

 

[Toddy]

Mind I said about most Scots living in close proximity ?.......well that would effectively kill off the right of nearly 80% of the population to possess an airgun.

M

 

[Lister]

No, no, no......it's not that they kill people BR, it's that they greatly inconvenience and frighten people, that's the issue.

M

So do chavs but you don't see the gov't bringing in a license to be aidiot bringing in legislation to control a non-problem is stupid and lets face it, criminals/idiots won't obey the laws so why waste the money?

 

[Toddy]

MOD REQUEST

I'm fed up editing out swearing. You all know it's not acceptable, and I already get in bother from the other Mods because I'm not strict enough and slapping on infractions.

Don't do it; it's not clever and I have figured out how to do the card thing again.


Toddy

 

[VANDEEN]

Here comes another law to persecute/charge/inconvenience the law abiding people; another law that will be just ignored by the idiots/criminals/problems in our society.

Can someone remind me again of the rising number of handgun crime figures since they were banned perhaps?
There was another great law that solved a problem, NOT!

 

[Toddy]

Please read post number 48.
In Scotland at least it would appear that firearms crimes are falling.

Bound to be someone who can extract the relevant ones for England and Wales and Northern Ireland.

cheers,
Toddy

 

[VANDEEN]

Please read post number 48.
In Scotland at least it would appear that firearms crimes are falling.

Please read post 53, carefully.

It specifically refers to "handgun crimes", it was handgun laws that were changed resulting in their ban.

If "ALL" firearms crimes are dropping in Scotland anyway, that's even less reason to bring in more UN-necessary laws surely?

 

[Toddy]

That's why we're all arguing this thread.

We can see 'why' most folks (up here at least) will think it a reasonable suggestion, but we can also analytically see that the laws we already have seem to be working to reduce the incidences anyway, so......

I think it's (especially in the light of the latest USA massacre) an emotive subject, yet I honestly think it should be approached rationally.
Thing is, proponents of both sides seem to lose their impartial judgement when the issue arises.

Rationally, I don't want to be living within shooting distance of a numpty with an airgun, and we have them ourselves......one has to wonder, do the neighbours consider our guns a worry too ?.....and I have to say that the answer is probably, "yes", and it's not that we are numpties or have ever behaved badly with the guns. Guns have, in themselves, become demonized; but then, since as a nation very few people will ever own a gun let alone use one, why should the majority not see that their restriction is a good idea ?

I won't lose any sleep over ours. If they stay then Son2 will need to suss out licencing, etc., If they go, he can sell them on.....but then we don't do anything but target shooting with them.
Toys not tools, iimmc.

As for handguns; I know a few folks who are still enraged that they 'lost' their guns, but I know a huge amount more who are awfully glad that we don't have the problems that they're causing elsewhere.
Be interesting to see how the NRA in America try to use their influence to stop their President's apparant determination to enforce some kind of gun control.
Semi automatic rifles are not domestic tools in any shape or form.....but then I live in a country where "firearms (please read post 48 carefully) crime (that's all firearms crime) has fallen 21% in the last year. Airguns crime by 17%."

cheers,
Toddy

 

[abominable_scouse_monster]

I'll be frank an say I am pro gun ownership, but not every type of gun (I have no idea why any one can justify owning a Squad support weapon like a M60, or a SMG MP5 if all's they do is hunt or collect) but I will say gun ownership in the UK is far too restricted.

Having said that I have a relative who is a police officer, she will point out that 99% of weapons used in a crime are illegally owned and in the case of knife crime by the under 18's (the predominant age for knife crime is under the under 18's) are knives taken from the kitchen at home that are normally bought from places like Asda, Tesco, Sainsburys etc.

Having said that, I am aware of pub's you can go to give a nod to a guy and walk out with a handgun for £50, and if you want something else he is more than willing to provide you with one. And let's not forget you can mail order illegal weapons if you can use the Tor network and are willing to pay in bitcoin. And let's not forget any numpty can walk into some no name surplus shop and but for under £100 a 150lb crossbow, that is more dangerous than any air gun you can get your hands on without a licence.

What is needed is the enforcement of already existing laws and education, in the general public and in schools about the dangers of what any tool used in the wrong way can do. All additional legislation will do is penalise legal users or the people who are not aware of the change in the law.

Edit to add:

Let's address the number of gun's that are brought into the country illegally, and get the illegal weapons off the street and address the local manufacture of illegal gun's. And if there is still a problem let's address that. But let's address that before we go about creating new law's. Also I would point out that Airgun's that are used in a real criminal act at least in Liverpool is going down (and a good percentage of them are modified beyond legal any way), hell you can go on you tube an see vids of kid (yes kids i.e. under 15) with collections of weapons that a well equipped special forces soldier would be envious of there is one I'll dig the link out for with a MAC10, Sawn off shotgun and a revolver and a semi-auto handgun. The kid shows his face holding them all on camera obviously not giving a turd, and this is a recent vid. I can only hope they have been taken off the street in one way or another.

 

[santaman2000]

.....I think it's (especially in the light of the latest USA massacre) an emotive subject, yet I honestly think it should be approached rationally.
Thing is, proponents of both sides seem to lose their impartial judgement when the issue arises.....

That's the thing Mary. Guns are (and have been for decades) banned on school property. The shooter didn't obey that law. They never do.

 

[santaman2000]

....Be interesting to see how the NRA in America try to use their influence to stop their President's apparant determination to enforce some kind of gun control.
Semi automatic rifles are not domestic tools in any shape or form.....

Actually my hunting rifle is a semi automatic. One of them anyway; I also have a single shot muzzle loading Hawkin but it's impossible to get a double with it, much less a triple.

As for the President's determination, it means nothing. The Supreme Court has already ruled that firearms ownership rights don't hinge on hunting; rather on self defense by private individuals. That descision takes it out of the president's hands. Only a Constitutional ammendment can change that and that takes first a 2/3 majority in BOTH houses, the House of Representatives and the House of Senate, (currently 287 out of 435 Congressmen and 66 Senators) before it goes to the individual states for ratification. Once there, it takes approval by a 3/4 majority of the states; currently that means 38 out of the 50 states would would have to ratify it. Thw President plays no part at all in the process.

That ain't gonna happen. There will be another push for tighter regulations, and there will be another equal push to allow faculty to be armed to respond (there was an armed cop on that campus, like most campusses) but he wasn't at the right place at the right time.

 

[bigroomboy]

sanataman2000, I am very pro gun. But I must object to that opinion in the US, and obviously I won't be changing anything. But if the guy coming into your house didn't have a gun, then you wouldn't need a gun to defend yourself.

Added:

That way if you come off worst you may be luck and only taking a beating rather than the high chance of being shot dead.

I love the US and wish it was possible to use all guns safely and freely but there are too many idiots that ruin it for everybody.