In Scotland, 16 to 18 year olds are allowed to buy cutlery and kitchen knives.
And that's a direct.gov quote lol
And that's a direct.gov quote lol
Advice for 16 year old buying a lock knife?
- Thread starter Telemarkmike
- Start date
Good point, thread title changed.
Can you please link to the legal source regarding age restrictions? I have been looking and found conflicting, fairly official, sources and want to see which one reflects the actual legislation.
Selling, buying and carrying knives and weapons
The laws on selling, buying and carrying a knife or weapon depend on the type of knife or weapon, your age and your circumstances.
"Basic laws on knives
It’s illegal to:
- sell a knife to anyone under 18, unless it has a folding blade 3 inches long (7.62 cm) or less
- carry a knife in public without good reason, unless it has a folding blade with a cutting edge 3 inches long or less
- carry, buy or sell any type of banned knife
- use any knife in a threatening way (even a legal knife)"
Sale of knives and offensive weapons to persons under 18 (section 141A Criminal Justice Act 1988)
Section 141A of the Criminal Justice Act 1988 makes it an offence to sell or let or hire to a person under 18 years:
- any knife, knife blade or razor blade
- any axe
- any sword
- any other article which has a blade or which is sharply pointed and which is made or adapted for use for causing injury to the person
This section does not apply to:
- any weapon to which section 141 of the Criminal Justice Act 1988 applies (any weapon subject to the Firearms Act 1968 and crossbows).
- any article described in section 1 of the Restriction of Offensive Weapons Act 1959 (“flick knives” and “gravity knives”).
- a folding pocket-knife if the cutting edge of its blade does not exceed 7.62 cm (3 inches).
But
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Possession of weapons
If you are caught illegally carrying a knife or a gun, even an imitation one you will be arrested and prosecuted. It is no excuse to say it was for your own protection or you were carrying it for someone else.
www.police.uk
It's illegal to:
- sell a knife of any kind to anyone under 18 years old (16 to 18 year olds in Scotland can buy cutlery and kitchen knives)
- carry a knife in public without good reason - unless it’s a knife with a folding blade 3 inches long (7.62 cm) or less, e.g. a Swiss Army knife (a "lock knife" does not come into the category of "folding pocket knife" because it is not immediately foldable at all times)
In practice Chris, no one will sell any kitchen knife to a teenager up here.
Indeed many shops have a no knife sales to anyone under 21 practice, and it's up on notices beside the knives and at tills.
The catch phrase of one local MP was, "Carry a knife, go to jail". No compromise whatsoever.
M
Indeed many shops have a no knife sales to anyone under 21 practice, and it's up on notices beside the knives and at tills.
The catch phrase of one local MP was, "Carry a knife, go to jail". No compromise whatsoever.
M
Although the title has changed, the advice hasn't, it is illegal for a 16y.o to buy a lock knife, and also illegal for an adult to buy it for him, unless the knife is non-locking and has a blade under 3 inches, it is legal for a 16 y.o to carry a fixed blade knife providing he has a reasonable excuse for doing so, and it would be up to the youth to convince the Police the reason is acceptable, even the Boy Scouts are not allowed to carry knives anymore, despite the Head Scout being Bear Grylls, who gets paid for patronising knife manufacturers.
A 16 y.o youth puts himself in a dangerous position if he is found to be carrying any sort of bladed instrument, depending of course where he is, and his demeanour.
The Laws in Scotland are different from English Law, and they can differ in some aspects, but neither authority are in favour of anyone carrying bladed instruments, so even believing you are within the Law would not guarantee your immunity from prosecution.
The Police in this country make up their own interpretations of the Laws, and that in itself causes problems, as stated in post 22, as far as the Police are concerned no-one should sell a knife "of any kind" to anyone under 18, despite the next sentence, this is very ambiguous. As there is no lower limit for actually buying a non-locking non-fixed bladed knife where the blade is 3 inches or less.
To the OP if you are going to allow your son to carry a non-legal locking knife, buy him a good file too, as he may be able to use that to escape from incarceration.
A 16 y.o youth puts himself in a dangerous position if he is found to be carrying any sort of bladed instrument, depending of course where he is, and his demeanour.
The Laws in Scotland are different from English Law, and they can differ in some aspects, but neither authority are in favour of anyone carrying bladed instruments, so even believing you are within the Law would not guarantee your immunity from prosecution.
The Police in this country make up their own interpretations of the Laws, and that in itself causes problems, as stated in post 22, as far as the Police are concerned no-one should sell a knife "of any kind" to anyone under 18, despite the next sentence, this is very ambiguous. As there is no lower limit for actually buying a non-locking non-fixed bladed knife where the blade is 3 inches or less.
To the OP if you are going to allow your son to carry a non-legal locking knife, buy him a good file too, as he may be able to use that to escape from incarceration.
My advice would be to go for a legal sub 3" folder for the time being. Provided it's reasonably well-made there are very few instances where the lack of a locking mechanism is going to be a major problem.
I would, however, disagree with those saying that a 16 year old should never carry any knife in public. As far as I'm concerned the whole reason we're forced to carefully tiptoe around these laws is because of a shift in public opinion from viewing a knife as a tool to instead a weapon. Anyone (and particularly anyone in the age bracket commonly associated with knife crime) who can demonstrate responsible knife ownership is helping to shift that public opinion back in the right direction. Teach him how to behave sensibly, what to do/ say if ever questioned by police or nosey/uninformed members of the public, and then let him exercise his legal right in a responsible manner. Just remember that regardless of knife legislation, pretty much anything can be classed as an offensive weapon when handled irresponsibly.
I would, however, disagree with those saying that a 16 year old should never carry any knife in public. As far as I'm concerned the whole reason we're forced to carefully tiptoe around these laws is because of a shift in public opinion from viewing a knife as a tool to instead a weapon. Anyone (and particularly anyone in the age bracket commonly associated with knife crime) who can demonstrate responsible knife ownership is helping to shift that public opinion back in the right direction. Teach him how to behave sensibly, what to do/ say if ever questioned by police or nosey/uninformed members of the public, and then let him exercise his legal right in a responsible manner. Just remember that regardless of knife legislation, pretty much anything can be classed as an offensive weapon when handled irresponsibly.
Here is a perfect quote. One handed opening for me is essential, whether I’m opening a packet of ground coffee or have my cut point marked by a thumb or finger on a piece of rope or string. Thankfully, we are not in German territory with one-hand opening, and I honestly won’t miss the flippers or assisted openers, exciting as they are. Spyderholes are the best one handed openers, much better than studs, though Griptilians get exemption because they’re superb.
Thanks for all the varied and interesting replies. There is some great information to glean from what has been written.
Sorry about the title, I wrote the question quickly without a huge amount of thought into the implications.
To clarify, we live on the outskirts of Edinburgh, we are a family who spend a lot of time outdoors (when we are allowed) spending a lot of time ski touring, mountaineering, mountain biking etc. My son is well used to using a knife, I feel that it is important to teach the skills and respect of a very useful tool rather than allowing him to see it as a weapon.
He is pretty grown up and responsible, doesn't hang about with his mates in parks etc, he enjoys spending time outdoors.
He was looking for an edc which was just a little bit more special/different/tactile and had a particular interest in Spyderco. He is open to other brands, I was just getting a feeling of options as focusing on uk friendly knifes massively impacts on choices. Good to see that there is still lots of options out there though.
Love hearing your thoughts and recommendations, keep them coming.
Sorry about the title, I wrote the question quickly without a huge amount of thought into the implications.
To clarify, we live on the outskirts of Edinburgh, we are a family who spend a lot of time outdoors (when we are allowed) spending a lot of time ski touring, mountaineering, mountain biking etc. My son is well used to using a knife, I feel that it is important to teach the skills and respect of a very useful tool rather than allowing him to see it as a weapon.
He is pretty grown up and responsible, doesn't hang about with his mates in parks etc, he enjoys spending time outdoors.
He was looking for an edc which was just a little bit more special/different/tactile and had a particular interest in Spyderco. He is open to other brands, I was just getting a feeling of options as focusing on uk friendly knifes massively impacts on choices. Good to see that there is still lots of options out there though.
Love hearing your thoughts and recommendations, keep them coming.
I may have missed something (that’s not an unusual occurrence to be honest) but isn’t 16 about the age many youth in the UK begin apprenticeships? It seems contradictory that an16 or 17 year old begins training and/or apprenticeship as a chef or butcher but can’t buy knives? Likewise beginning training or apprenticeship as an arborist but can’t buy an axe?
The OP is just talking about a lock knife or fixed blade being 'non-legal' in the sense they arn't specifically in the legislation - I can find no legislation on gifting legal to own knives anywhere only sales.
I was just asking where you found that piece of law since you seemed to be so sure its illegal to buy a fixed blade (or lock knife) knife for somone under 18 and gift it to them?
Besdies if you actually look at the law, broken as it sounds selling is illegal not buying...
To clarify, I was meaning a knife that locked, and possibly a blade a touch over 3 inches. I was not meaning an illegal knife such as a flick knife, butterfly knife, zombie knife etc. Sorry for any confusion caused.
How a Swiss Army knife? The 84/91/93mm frames are UK legal (non locking, small enough blade, two hand opening) and they are generally well accepted by the public as tools not weapons.
With all the bad publicity knives are getting the moment the more emphasis you can take away from the actual blade the better and the bigger SAKs have plenty of non bladed tools.
With all the bad publicity knives are getting the moment the more emphasis you can take away from the actual blade the better and the bigger SAKs have plenty of non bladed tools.
If he wants a spyderco, just get the sub 3" non-locking one. It's a good knife for everyday tasks.
While I love my old Swiss Army for its tools, and think everyone should have one...for the tools, the blades are a bit rubbish in both how sharp they can be made, and how long they will keep that edge. They are hardened to only 54HRC, whereas an O-1 bushcraft knife would be 58HRC and many good stainless blades can edge up to 59-60HRC. That is why I like the Boker Plus Techtool, 12C27 steel, hard enough to take and hold a decent edge, at a price that if I use or lose, I won't be heart broken.
Also, if the heart fancies a Spyderco Para3...a SAK is never going to satisfy.
EDC means every day carry, and implies that the knife is carried all day, every day, everywhere. In the UK, that means sub-3 non locking (age issues aside). Any locking knife is not legal EDC, even if some people choose to do so. Lock knives = fixed blade in the eyes of the law and the only reason to carry a lock knife away from home is really that a sheath knife is too bulky, heavy or awkward. One could add that a locking folder is also more discreet (which can be good even when you do have legal cover).
I have quite a few locking folders, and they very rarely leave my property these days. I use them around the house and workshop, but when I go walking across country for a day, I take a 3" slip joint. Part of me wishes that I found this inadequate, but the reality is that I don't.
If one handed opening is a big attraction, and I understand that, then the UKPK really is very good. I would say it stands head and shoulders above all other options. However, as Toddy has said, it does look both large, and pokey. I have had far fewer negative comments from people around me with a slimmer two-hand knife.
For a teenager, I would say that a locking knife that is one handed opening introduces some temptations that these days might be better avoided. People who like knives like showing their peers the knives they have, especially if there is any "cool" factor there, like single handed opening. Not all those peers are as level headed as one might like and some will share stories that can re-surface at inconvenient times. Also, if you carry a particular knife a lot when you are home, or out in the country, there is an increased chance you will forget and find you still have it in town. That has happened to me, or nearly happened on more than one occasion.
Looking at nice 3" non-locking that might scratch the itch, in addition to the lower cost TechTool1, and UKPK, and Lion Steel Thrill and Bestman, there is the Three Rivers Viator. Another thing, orange or bright handles can be good, people seem far less worried seeing a bright handled knife than one that looks all black and tactical.
All the best
Chris
Also, if the heart fancies a Spyderco Para3...a SAK is never going to satisfy.
EDC means every day carry, and implies that the knife is carried all day, every day, everywhere. In the UK, that means sub-3 non locking (age issues aside). Any locking knife is not legal EDC, even if some people choose to do so. Lock knives = fixed blade in the eyes of the law and the only reason to carry a lock knife away from home is really that a sheath knife is too bulky, heavy or awkward. One could add that a locking folder is also more discreet (which can be good even when you do have legal cover).
I have quite a few locking folders, and they very rarely leave my property these days. I use them around the house and workshop, but when I go walking across country for a day, I take a 3" slip joint. Part of me wishes that I found this inadequate, but the reality is that I don't.
If one handed opening is a big attraction, and I understand that, then the UKPK really is very good. I would say it stands head and shoulders above all other options. However, as Toddy has said, it does look both large, and pokey. I have had far fewer negative comments from people around me with a slimmer two-hand knife.
For a teenager, I would say that a locking knife that is one handed opening introduces some temptations that these days might be better avoided. People who like knives like showing their peers the knives they have, especially if there is any "cool" factor there, like single handed opening. Not all those peers are as level headed as one might like and some will share stories that can re-surface at inconvenient times. Also, if you carry a particular knife a lot when you are home, or out in the country, there is an increased chance you will forget and find you still have it in town. That has happened to me, or nearly happened on more than one occasion.
Looking at nice 3" non-locking that might scratch the itch, in addition to the lower cost TechTool1, and UKPK, and Lion Steel Thrill and Bestman, there is the Three Rivers Viator. Another thing, orange or bright handles can be good, people seem far less worried seeing a bright handled knife than one that looks all black and tactical.
All the best
Chris
I have seen an apprentice refused purchase of a set of chisels at the cashdesk of a major DIY store. Eventaully his workmates came in to help persuade the sales staff but since it was the lad who was making the purchase, with his debit card, it was still refused.
There's a fair bit of confusion over what is and what isn't legal, so in practice the shopkeepers on the whole vere on the be safe side of things and refuse to sell any knife, cutlery or otherwise, to anyone who cannot prove they are over 21with photo ID like a driver's licence or a passport.
Not true in every case, but on the whole, certainly in central Scotland, no one will sell a teenager a knife or chisel, and often not even gardening tools like axes either. Local landscaping company supplies all tools for their two apprentices and those tools are stored in lock boxes in the company office over night. Not even pruning knives are kept by the apprentices. Their boss told me that it's not that he doesn't trust them, but he doesn't trust other people, and he's making sure that his lads aren't going to be part of the problem. I think that's his way of making sure too that nothing comes back on him.
We don't have a gun culture, we do have an enormous problem with knife crime among a tiny proportion of the population. So, folks try to deny the youth access to bladed tools by stopping them buying them. The idiots just raid mum's kitchen instead
It's a kind of sick joke.
My brother out walking his dog, was accosted by a group of teenagers one night in a narrow lane. One threatened him with a large screwdriver and demanded money, my brother looked at the brat and laughed, and he said, (I'll translate from Scots :roll: )
"What's wrong son ? Does your mummy not trust you with the bread knife ?"
The cretin's mates laughed at him, and my brother just walked on....not everyone's so lucky. Usually though it's youth fighting youth, and yes, bread knives can and do wound and kill.
Things are improving, but there's still no way folks will sell knives or other bladed tools to teenagers, and most would be reluctant to sell to young men at all.
M
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What Toddy says is the reason why I am distrustful of quoting the law based on legal notices published by places that sell knives and tools. Since the crime is selling the knife to the wrong person, it is easier for them to play safe and put up that the law says no for everything to anyone up to 18 or 21 than it is to operate precisely within the letter of the law with no margin. There is little reward in it for a retailer to run that close to the wind, and a lot of potential risk.
I do think though that it is our responsibility to help responsible teens learn about knives as tools as early as possible. I applaud Telemarkmike's efforts here and wish him the best. He is swimming against the tide, even within this community.
I do think though that it is our responsibility to help responsible teens learn about knives as tools as early as possible. I applaud Telemarkmike's efforts here and wish him the best. He is swimming against the tide, even within this community.
Thank you for this.
Couldn't agree more, what a informative and balanced response. It clarifies what I have been thinking and gives me more to mull over, mostly other quality knife options.
I do think though that it is our responsibility to help responsible teens learn about knives as tools as early as possible. I applaud Telemarkmike's efforts here and wish him the best. He is swimming against the tide, even within this community.
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Thank you for the support and words of encouragement
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Thank you for the support and words of encouragement
Thank you for the support and words of encouragement[/QUOTE]My sons learned from a very young age ,first penknives 6 or 7 , making bows etc moved into axes ,fixed bales etc spoon carving and the like ,youngest is now 17 middle 19 oldest 25 all very responsible knife carriers, now when and where and all now correct use .its not the knife that's dangerous it's the owner .as you say it's our job to educate the new generation to behave responsibly in all aspects of life not just cutting tools .
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