Adam's excellent proofing adventure. (aka: I treated the Ventile)

[addyb]

Okay so yesterday I decided it was time that I proofed my Ventile anorak (the old one in my pictures thread) as the rain here in BC has just been getting worse and worse every day, and droplets just weren't beading on the fabric as much as they should be.

So I phoned up the biggest outdoor store here in town .(Nanaimo) A girl answers the phone. I politely ask her "I have an old Ventile anorak, I'm thinking of treating it with either Nikwax or Grangers cotton proof. Do you recommend a wash-in or spray-on treatment? How much do you charge for it?" There's a pause, and she answers nervously "Uhm...what's an anorak? Is it cotton?" "Yes." "Well I'm sorry, we don't carry proofing treatments, I don't even know much about Grangers. You could call a sewing supply store."

At this point, I was reading to call back, and scream at the manager. Honestly, what kind of outdoor gear store hires employees that don't know the basic points about gear? It's a sad sad day I tell you.

Anyway, myself, a friend and his girl went out to Starbucks for espresso. On the way there, we stopped at a construction gear supply store, and sure enough, there were bottles of Storm Proofer Plus, for $6.25. I bought a bottle, and I'm still wondering why a construction gear store (hard hats, safety vests, the like....) sells it, but a mountaineering supply store hasn't heard of it?

Well I got home, did the treatment, dried it, and today I'm going for a walk in the rain, so I'll test it. (But I have heard that Storm is a fluorocarbon treatment, and that it's very good stuff)

A.

 

[Hoodoo]

Did you have to iron or dry the coat in a dryer after treatment?

 

[addyb]

Yes, sortof.

I ran a wash cycle once, empty, to remove all traces of detergent. Then I added 5 (five) capfuls of Storm proofing to the machine, and added the anorak. When it was done, I put it in the dryer at a medium setting to seal in the proofing. Then I took it out, and hung it on the coat rack where it will sit until 11am this morning when I will walk to my Grandmothers for lunch. (It's a short, 30 minute walk) and when I'm home, I'll let you guys know how much of a difference Storm Proofer Plus makes. (In BC right now, the rain is absolutely horrific) ((It's funny how many sopping wet, ill-prepared people I see on campus))

The genius of Storm, is that it's fluorocarbon, and it can be used on all fabrics. So ventile, gore-tex, etc etc...

And it's a massive bottle, and only five capfuls are needed. My Dad wants me to do his Gore-Tex parka, and I might even do my soft-shell jacket.

Anyway, I'll let you guys know.

Adam.

 

[Hoodoo]

Have you always dried your ventile coat in the dryer. Just wondering if there were any problems with shrinkage.

 

[addyb]

That's a good question Hoodoo;

And no, it doesn't shrink. Because, if you think about it, the weave is so tight, that it just can't shrink.

The purpose of putting a treated garment in a dryer is to evenly distrubute the proofing throughout the the fibres.

I asked my Dad over beers last night what he used to do back in the '70's with Gore-Tex before DWR proofings were on the market, he said he used to iron his parka's at a low setting.

Anyway, proofings aren't permanent, they wear off over time. Cotton as a fabric holds waterproofing for a very long time. Nylon is not naturally a 'wet weather fabric' which is why DWR's on gore-tex don't last very long. And so when it starts to wear off, or when dirt and sweat clog it, washing and drying a garment improves the DWR.

If you look back a page or two, you'll see a .pdf arcticle I posted called "Lancashire Cottons: A neglected legacy." I highly suggest anyone who owns Ventile to read it, it's extremely informative, albeit very long.

Here's a link.

Cheers,

Adam.

 

[Stew]

I thought that the point of Ventile was that it shouldn't be treated with anything, or do you just have to be careful what you use?

 

[addyb]

Wow, lots of questions? I'll admit to you guys, I am unbashfully, a serious gear junkie. I know everything there is to know about climbing gear. Such as:

The Italian researcher who invented polypropylene in the mid 1960's was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize.

Or how about this one:

Ventile only absorbs 10% of it's weight in water because of the high quality cotton and weave structure.

(No-one really needs to know this stuff, but it comes in hand at parties)

Anyway, this proofing REALLY works. Prior to yesterday, as soon as any raindrops hit my Ventile, it would immediately soak in, swell, and and become stiff. (It's not a big deal, it's still warm, and gave me a security feeling - like wearing a suit of armour)

So I took my walk this morning, and holy sh*t, what a difference!

Raindrops just sit there. Like blobs. Of course, they soak in eventually, and it does what it's supposed to do **stiffen up** but it takes quite some time, and the Ventile dries MUCH quicker.

So the point here is this: I highly recommend treating your Ventile, no matter if it's brand new, or 30+ years old.

 

[Stew]

Cool.

So do you think Nikwax Cottonproof would be suitable? (I would presume so)

 

[addyb]

Bah, yeah. Nikwax, Grangers, Storm, they all work about the same. I've used Nikwax before on my Gore-Tex and it did the trick.

Essentially, they're really not so different. Nikwax is water based, so it's more environmentally friendly, but it's not as potent, so you need to use more in your washer than you would Grangers or Storm. Those two are Fluorocarbon based, which from what I've read, isn't as green as Nikwax, but it's more potent, so you use less.

Either way you look at it, they work. One's from North America, the other two are from England. (So it depends on your social bias as to which one you'll buy)

Adam

 

[bushblade]

Cool.

So do you think Nikwax Cottonproof would be suitable? (I would presume so)

No it won't work very well. Nikwax is silicone based (Tx10) the tight weave of ventile forces it out of the fabric and you're left with a kinda milky residue.
Grangers works pretty well, as this is flurocarbon based too, Snowsled recomend it. But Storm is by far the best, I'd recomend the storm spray on stuff then a quick spin in a hot dryer, or a good ironing. Its the heat that activates the proofing, which is why ironing gore-tex revitalises the DWR.
Storm is distributed by AMG outdoors in the UK so anywhere that stocks Vango products should be able to get hold of it. Their range of boot care stuff is not too bad either, though I still rate Grangers best for this.
You can use the storm stuff on pretty much any fabric you want to proof without fear of damaging the product.

 

[addyb]

Will,

Pardon me, I stand corrected.

In the end, it's probably a good thing that I didn't buy Nikwax, although it was my first choice. I had to settle on Storm because there was nothing else in the gear store I was in, but it turns out that Storm is the best out there. I tried checking out their website for more information but it's "Under Construction."

Adam

 

[JFW]

Bushblade,

You can use the storm stuff on pretty much any fabric you want to proof without fear of damaging the product.

Would this include ripstop nylon? I have an old ponch which is needing reproofed.

Cheers

JFW

 

[addyb]

Hmm...wouldn't "any fabric" include "any fabric"?? *kidding, kidding*

Yep, you can use this stuff on ANYTHING. So far I've done my Ventile, but when it gets closer to December, I'm going to have a go at my Entrant GII-XT, my Dad's 3-ply Classic Gore-Tex, and I would have done my soft-shell jacket, but the piece of sh*t delaminated all over the front. YOU SEE, THAT'S WHY I STOPPED USING SYNTHETICS!!!

A.

 

[JohnC]

how about an old wool blanket that I've made into a shirt?
It looks ok, and I've dyed it green(ish) but I'd like to make it water resistant

 

[JFW]

Addyb,

Hmm...wouldn't "any fabric" include "any fabric"?? *kidding, kidding*

A.

yes you're right I'm an idiot, that why I asked the question - it wouldn't be the first time I've "melted" synthetics by treating them with something I shouldn't.

Thanks for clearing this up for me - if I trash my poncho I'll be chapping your door.... :twak:

Cheers

JFW

 

[addyb]

JFW,

Sorry if I offended you, I couldn't quite tell by your reply if you were kidding or not. Feel free to fell me with a right-cross to the jaw. heheh

If it's a nylon poncho, I wouldn't bother treating it. Is it military surplus? Army poncho's are sil-coated on the backside, which makes them waterproof, so treating the outside won't do a whole lot of good to it. My advice on poncho's is to wash it with warm water and a wee bit of soap in your bathtub, rinse it for a while, then just hang it in your garage to dry. That's what I did to my two ponchos.

JohnC,

Wool blankets I have no idea about. I do know this: Wool fibre has two parts: the outer has lanolin, which makes it water-repellent. The inner core of the fibre is hydrophillic, (water loving) which absorbs vapour. If you wash the lanolin out of wool, I don't really know what else you could do. I think I read somewhere about washing wool with borax to treat it, but I'm not sure. Ask someone on here who owns a Swanndri anorak, and they'll be able to give you a lot more information than I can. Or you, could have a go with Storm on the blanket, and see where it takes you!

Adam

PS: Take everything I say with a grain of salt, I'm probably the youngest person in this community (not even 21 yet) which means I'm young but also very stupid.

 

[JFW]

Addyb,

no offence was taken, I like a bit of banter and your posts are appreciated as well as informative. Cheers for the tip and you might still find a red headed scotsman at your door, but to offer you a wee dram. It is sometimes difficult to convey humour using this medium. Anyway you would have to go some to offend me so no worries.

Cheers

JFW

 

[Spacemonkey]

Right, a friend treated his 10 year old ventile smock with some Nikwax cotton treatment a few weeks ago. Today whilst out shooting in the lashing rain we got a soaking. The smock didn't appear to actually do much on the proofing front, and it soaked right through to his pertex top underneath.

Now, my theory is that the Nikwax stuff is stopping the threads swelling up somehow as the cloth doesn't stiffen up either. Would this make sense? If so, how the heck can he get rid of it???

 

[Stew]

Right, a friend treated his 10 year old ventile smock with some Nikwax cotton treatment a few weeks ago. Today whilst out shooting in the lashing rain we got a soaking. The smock didn't appear to actually do much on the proofing front, and it soaked right through to his pertex top underneath.

Now, my theory is that the Nikwax stuff is stopping the threads swelling up somehow as the cloth doesn't stiffen up either. Would this make sense? If so, how the heck can he get rid of it???

How did the smock perform before treating it?

 

[Spacemonkey]

Stew, I think that it worked fine, but as it is getting on a bit it wasn't performing as well as it did, but either way, he said it was definitely working better before he proofed it. I have already given him Addys advice on heat treating it so we'll see if that helps.