Adam's excellent proofing adventure. (aka: I treated the Ventile)

[bushtuckerman]

ah right. well unless as you say the process has changed, i misunderstand the information on the website, but then i do have no knowledge or experience of weaving materials. It says it is the heaviest grade, but i seem not to get the consequences of that, as i thought that would mean there would be fewer, thicker threads. I also assumed that a less dense material would absorb wate more readily when the pilots ditch.

I guess their being able to breathe is most important since they have to cope with sudden changes in pressure, so two layers might be overkill.

 

[addyb]

Oh gosh no, double layer is not overkill! If anything, it's better than single layer Ventile. I've seen single layer stuff, and my experience has been that once it wets out, there's really nothing to stop the "ventile-ated" cotton (thanks Graham) from touching whatever you're wearing underneath. Double layer adds just that, a second layer. This gives the wearer that much added protection. Like I said, the only places double layer soaks through is through the seams. This is because apart from the seams, the two layers are not touching.

Basically what I was getting at is that my proofing didn't really make too much of a difference on my jacket. The water beaded up for a while, but it seemed to disappear after a time. I heat treated the garment, but it still didn't do a whole lot. Either way you look at it, I still stay dry in bad weather!

Like Graham says, the issued stuff isn't proofed in the least bit. And anyway, I'm not the least bit worried about the cosmetic appearance of mine, it's incredibly sun faded and has had a few holes sewn up, as well as new cuffs and waist drawstring hems added.

Cheers guys,

Adam

 

[Graham O]

To get back to the original proofing adventure thread, Ventile is coated with a flurocarbon to reduce initial water uptake and for dirt and stain resistance. When it wears off the recommended reproofing is Grangers Extreme Waterproofing for Naturals. Which, hopefully, does what it says on the bottle!

 

[bushtuckerman]

sorry addyb, perhaps i wasn't so clear, i meant in terms of immersion suits, not jackets. on the talbot weaving site it's mentioned that ventile suits increased survival times from roughly 3 to 20 mins during war time.

Thanks Graham, i'll bear that in mind for mine. So, presumably, if ventile is supplied in this way that is how it reaches the hands of the military, unless they specify otherwise, but maybe not back in '43. Does this mean though, that when they say on their website that "ventile is not coated" that it is not bonded to a membrane, but is however treated? Are the "Resistance to water hydrostatic head" measurements based on fluorocarbon treated ventile? sorry for all the questions!

really very grateful for all the info.

 

[addyb]

Damn, this is so not cool. *bangs head on desk* I bought Storm Fluorocarbon proofing because I had heard that the silicone in Nikwax was bad for Ventile, and no-one in Nanaimo here carried Grangers Naturals. Wow, looks like I've got something that's really great for stain resistance.

Adam, who will now quietly sip his morning coffee and weep.

 

[billycan]

I'm sorry to dredge this thread up from the search function, but after reading throught this thread and other old ones first, i am more confused...

So what is the proper way to treat ventile, based on this thread Nickwax seems not to be good for ventile.

So any ideas/views/ ventile users experiences would be much appreciated, as my double layer smock is starting to leak.

once again sorry to dredge this up, but i wanted to clarify the matter.

 

[JonnyP]

I'm sorry to dredge this thread up from the search function, but after reading throught this thread and other old ones first, i am more confused...

So what is the proper way to treat ventile, based on this thread Nickwax seems not to be good for ventile.

So any ideas/views/ ventile users experiences would be much appreciated, as my double layer smock is starting to leak.

once again sorry to dredge this up, but i wanted to clarify the matter.

Don't apologise, tis an interesting thread...
I would like to know if westwinds treat their jackets with sommit, because the water beads up on mine. Sounds like it won't always though...

 

[maverick moocher]

I'm sure that some ventile products must have a spray on treatment on them 'cos they do seem to bead the water off quite well, so a spray on must be the way to go for a leaky jacket? I've tried the wash in ones as well with some success but with the nature of the material i've not been that confident of its effectiveness. I've just bought a SASS Smock in " All weather fabric " OG. This has a finish on it that allows the water to bead off and it works very well.

 

[billycan]

Thanks guys, I am sure that ventile is treated with something when you get it, as my smock when it first came it shed the water well, but now its started abosrbing it round the back of my neck and shoulders, and i need to treat it this week to take it away on a trip with me.

 

[Glen]

I'm sure that some ventile products must have a spray on treatment on them 'cos they do seem to bead the water off quite well, so a spray on must be the way to go for a leaky jacket? I've tried the wash in ones as well with some success but with the nature of the material i've not been that confident of its effectiveness. I've just bought a SASS Smock in " All weather fabric " OG. This has a finish on it that allows the water to bead off and it works very well.

I figure that a thin layer sprayed on would be the only way to do it and still maintain the ventile ability to swell up easily where water does pass through that water repellent layer.

Something worth trying would be if water beads on the inside of a ventile layer where it has beaded on the outer.

 

[Spacemonkey]

I treated my suit to spray on Grangers Extreme for naturals and then tumble dried it and ironed it. No rpoblems, and it works still, the only trouble came from washing it in the first place (with a ventile washing fluid) as now i have white crease lines from the fabric rubbing around in my machine. Great...

 

[addyb]

Wow, this is an O-L-D thread and its nice to see it still getting page hits!

I wouldn't worry about the white crease lines Spacemonkey, no one's going to poke fun at the appearance of your clothes in the bush. (At least I hope not)

Cheers,

Adam

 

[Spacemonkey]

True, but i wear it everyday too...

 

[addyb]

True, but i wear it everyday too...

....that would present a problem then!

 

[lub0]

This is a great thread, certainly the most informative thread we have on ventile and treating it. Any more comments and experience on care and proofing of ventile would be very interesting. My SASS smock works well in light showers and in heavy showers water does soak right though the arms and lower back but is completely dry on the head and shoulder's where there is an additional layer of ventile which now has me desiring a double layered ventile jacket. Does anyone know is SASS kit can modify an existing smock to be double layered? I've sent an email but never got a reply! Infact they have never replied to any emails I sent them regarding the care/proofing instructions for their own smocks... weird!

I've just bought some Nikwax products while they were on offer with the intention of washing and proofing my SASS smock which does have a few patches of dirt especially on the elbows. After reading through this thread it makes me just want to wash this on a low heat with plain water and not go near the techwash, tx spray and cotton proof that I've just bought! What do you guys think?

Also does anyone know what grade of ventile SASS use for their smocks as there are varying grades of weave as described here - http://www.ventile.co.uk/uses.htmlx I know it is not officially ventile but standard oxford weave, but it would be interesting to know what grade it would be equivilent to. I'm hoping L19 rather than L24!
Also does anyone know what grade of ventile the other ventile jacket makes such as snowsled, hilltrek and country innovations use? It seems out of all the grades, the L19 would seem to make for a very hard wearing and very warm double layered ventile jacket.

I'll email these companies right away and post back their repsonses.

 

[lub0]

I've just had my SASS smock stretched out over the kitchen sink and allowed the tap to rinse over a single layer part of the smock on a low pressure and soon enough the water was dripping at a high speed on to my hand which was positioned under the area being soaked. I thought ventile wasn't supposed to let water through, only get damp? I'm beginning to think that while ventile is an excellent outdoor fabric, the expectations I have of it are very unrealistic and that at the end of the day this was stuff was invented in a hurry, with the materials and technology available back in the 1940's war years. Or maybe this SASS fabric is a lighter grade varient and that proper L19 ventile would not let water drip through??

 

[treadlightly]

Lubo, I have a Sass smock and have owned a Hilltrek ventile smock and I would say the fabrics are very similar and perform very similarly.

As to your water test, I would suggest that pouring water over stretched fabric - even with low pressure - does not replicate being out in rain. If you wear wool under the smock any water ingress is absorbed and does not soak through to your skin.

To borrow John Fenna's phrase once again - water management not water proofing.

 

[lub0]

Well in that case a double layer ventile is really the only way to go, who wants to be messing about with jacket liners in the middle of the night before getting ready for bed under the tarp? I just won this auction for an old 1960's double layer ventile jacket - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200701715653?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
I must admit though this will not be mine but my partners who has been looking for a good deal on a ventile jacket for ages, but she was only wanting to pay around the £100 mark so I'm going to have to help her pay for it which is fine by me as we can finally enjoy the great outdoors together, with proper kit. I hope it's 50 year age won't effect it's performance but it certainly dosn't show it's age if the photos are anything to go by.

I've ordered granger's XT spray which is reccomended by west winds for proofing ventile with, and will use my nikwax tech wash to clean it in when the jacket arrives.

Can't wait to test it out!

 

[lub0]

On second thoughts I won't be recieving this jacket after all due to disagreement over shipping charges, but I've had news back from Country Innovation and Snowslead and they both use L24 ventile.