Activities Scouts are not allowed to do

[almac]

Ie which of the following is not allowed:

using a fixed blade knife or paintballing or knife throwing.

i would think that the knife throwing would be a no no... as a former scout and leader; a knife is a tool and should never be abused in this way.
a knife belongs in either 2 places: in the hand(while being used), or in its' sheath. anything else leads way to either loss or injury.

i fixed blade knife is one of the best tools for bushcraft(no bowie knives please), and i believe it is safer than an axe(easier to control). when i was a leader, the fixed blade was only allowed after training, and demonstration of the scout in its' safe and proper use.
when parents asked me what kind of knife, i recommended a frost mora. blaze orange is best, to prevent loss in the bush.

one of my favorite knife videos for scouts: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnvusOGZ91Y&playnext=1&list=PL5FDE34DA0DAAF0DE

 

[almac]

I heard the scouts weren't allowed to indulge in goat tinkering.

or cow tipping...

 

[dorkingbushcraft]

Duncan
This guidance not a rule.
The only rule regaurding knives in the UK Scout association is that a knife may not be worn as part of the uniform. A knife was originally part of the uniform.
Rule 10.2 B says
b. Knives may not be worn with uniform except for religious reasons.

The rule book POR

Feel free to point the rule you quote.

but can a knife be worn on the belt during flag break etc. if the scout is allowed to bring it along to meetings to use during the meeting,but has nothing to do with uniform?

 

[FreddyFish]

Quick question: If they cain't shoot live quarry, how do they earn their hunting merit badge?

UK Scouts don't hunt.

 

[bojit]

While i was in the air scouts we were allways being told off for drinking , swearing and chasing girls .

Well we were only following their example , they were a lot worse than us and still are .

Craig.................

 

[decorum]

Quick question: If they cain't shoot live quarry, how do they earn their hunting merit badge?

UK scouting doesn't have a proficiency award for hunting ~ what do scouts in America need to do for theirs?

 

[santaman2000]

I've just checked and it appears hunting as such has been incorporated into the Rifle Shooting and Shotgun Shooting merit badges. The BSA rifle Shooting philosophy and merit badge requirements are:


“ Unless a rifle is handled incorrectly or recklessly, it is not dangerous. A rifle, like any other precision instrument, is manufactured to perform a specific task and can do so at no risk to the user or others. By earning this badge, Scouts can develop their shooting skills while learning safe practices. ”


The Rifle Shooting merit badge was one of the Original 57 Merit Badges issued by the Boy Scouts of America in 1911.


Rifle Shooting requirements


1. Do the following:

a. Explain why BB and pellet air guns must always be treated with the same respect as firearms.
b. Describe how you would react if a friend visiting your home asked to see your or your family's firearm(s).
c. Explain the need for, and use and types of, eye and hearing protection.
d. Give the main points of the laws for owning and using guns in your community and state.
e. Explain how hunting is related to the wise use of renewable wildlife resources.
f. Obtain a copy of the hunting laws for your state. Explain the main points of hunting laws in your state and give any special laws on the use of guns or ammunition.
g. Identify and explain how you can join or be a part of shooting sports activities.
h. Explain to your counselor the proper hygienic guidelines used in shooting.
i. Give to your counselor a list of sources that you could contact for information on firearms and their use.

2. Do ONE of the following options:

OPTION A--RIFLE SHOOTING (MODERN CARTRIDGE TYPE)
a. Identify the three main parts of a rifle, and tell how they function.
b. Identify and demonstrate the three fundamental rules for safe gun handling.
c. Identify the two types of cartridges, their parts, and how they function.
d. Explain to your counselor what a misfire, hangfire, and squib fire are, and explain the procedures to follow in response to each.
e. Identify and demonstrate the five fundamentals of shooting a rifle safely.
f. Identify and explain each rule for safe shooting.
g. Demonstrate the knowledge, skills, and attitude necessary to safely shoot a rifle from the bench rest position or supported prone position while using the five fundamentals of rifle shooting.
h. Identify the basic safety rules for cleaning a rifle, and identify the materials needed
i. Demonstrate how to clean a rifle properly and safely.
j. Discuss what points you would consider in selecting a rifle
k. Using a .22 caliber rimfire rifle and shooting from a bench rest or supported prone position at 50 feet, fire five groups (three shots per group) that can be covered by a quarter. Using these targets, explain how to adjust sights to zero.
l. Adjust sights to center the group on the target* and fire five groups (five shots per group). According to the target used, each shot in the group must meet the following minimum score: (1) A-32 targets - 9; (2) A-17 or TQ-1 targets - 7; (3) A-36 targets - 5.

OPTION B --- AIR RIFLE SHOOTING (BB OR PELLET)
a. Identify the three main parts of an air rifle, and tell how they function.
b. Identify and demonstrate the three fundamental rules for handling a rifle safely.
c. Identify the two most common types of air rifle ammunition.
d. Identify and demonstrate the five fundamentals of shooting a rifle.
e. Identify and explain each rule for shooting an air rifle safely.
f. Demonstrate the knowledge, skills and attitude necessary to safely shoot a target from the bench rest position or supported prone position while using the five fundamentals of rifle shooting.
g. Identify the basic safety rules for cleaning an air rifle, and identify the materials needed.
h. Demonstrate how to clean an air rifle safely.
i. Discuss what points you would consider in selecting an air rifle.
j. Using a BB gun or pellet air rifle and shooting from a bench rest or supported prone position at 15 feet for BB guns or 33 feet for air rifles, fire five groups (three shots per group) that can be covered by a quarter.
k. Adjust sights to center the group on the target and fire five groups (five shots per group). According to the target used, each shot in the group must meet the following minimum score: (1) BB rifle at 15 feet or 5 meters using TQ - 5 targets - 8; (2) Pellet air rifle at 25 feet using TQ - 5 target - 8, at 33 feet or 10 meters using AR-1 targets - 6.

OPTION C --- MUZZLE - LOADING RIFLE SHOOTING
a. Discuss a brief history of the development of muzzle-loading rifles.
b. Identify principal parts of percussion and flintlock rifles and discuss how they function.
c. Demonstrate and discuss the safe handling rules of muzzle-loading rifles.
d. Identify the various grades of black powder and their proper use.
e. Discuss proper safety procedures pertaining to black powder use and storage.
f. Discuss proper components of a load.
g. Identify proper procedures and accessories used for loading a muzzle-loading rifle.
h. Demonstrate the knowledge, skills, and attitude necessary to safely shoot a muzzle-loading rifle on a range, including range procedures.
i. Shoot a target with a muzzle-loading rifle using the five fundamentals of firing the shot.
j. Identify the materials needed to clean a muzzle- loading rifle safely. Using these materials, demonstrate how to clean a muzzle-loading rifle safely.
k. Identify the causes of a muzzle-loading rifle's failing to fire and explain or demonstrate proper correction procedures.
l. Discuss what points you would consider in selecting a muzzle-loading rifle.
m. Using a muzzle-loading rifle of any caliber and shooting from a bench rest or supported prone position, fire three groups (three shots per group) that can be covered by the base of a standard-size soft soft drink can.
n. Center the group on the target and fire three groups (five shots per group). According to the target used, each shot in the group must meet the following minimum score: (1) at 25 yards using NRA A-23 or NMLRA 50-yard targets - 7; (2) at 50 yards using NRA A-25 or NMLRA 100 yard targets - 7.

* Note: It is not always practical to adjust the sights (i.e. when using a borrowed fixed-sight rifle). For requirement 2l, you may demonstrate your ability to use the shooting fundamentals by shooting five shot groups (five shots per group) in which all shots can be covered by or touch a quarter and then explain how to adjust the sights to zero the rifle.

Requirements 1e,1f, 2j (in option A), 2i (in option B) and 2l (in option C) would be the links to hunting proficiency. I'll do another post with the Shotgun Requirements.

 

[santaman2000]

The BSA philosophy and requirements for the Shotgun Shooting merit badge are:

“ A shotgun is a precision instrument, designed to shoot a shot charge in a specific pattern to cover a designated area at a certain distance. Unlike a rifle, the bore of the shotgun is not rifled, so the shot emerging from the muzzle is not spinning. ”

Shotgun Shooting requirements

1. Do the following:

a. Explain why BB and pellet air guns must always be treated with the same respect as firearms.
b. Describe how you would react if a friend visiting your home asked to see your or your family's firearm(s).
c. Explain the need for and use and types of eye and hearing protection.
d. Explain the main points of the laws for owning and using guns in your community and state.
e. Explain how hunting is related to the wise use of renewable wildlife resources.
f. Successfully complete a state hunter education course, or obtain a copy of the hunting laws for your state, then do the following.

1. Explain the main points of hunting laws in your state and give any special laws on the use of guns and ammunition, and
2. List the kinds of wildlife that can be legally hunted in your state.

g. Explain to your counselor the proper hygienic guidelines used in shooting.
h. Identify and explain three shotgun sports. Identify places in your community where you could shoot these sports and explain how you can join or be a part of shooting sports activities.
i. Give your counselor a list of sources that you could contact for information on firearms and their use.

2. Do ONE of the following options:

OPTION A: SHOTGUN SHOOTING (MODERN SHOTSHELL TYPE)
a. Identify the principal parts of a shotgun, action types, and how they function.
b. Identify and demonstrate the rules for safely handling a shotgun.
c. Identify the parts of a shotgun shell and their functions.
d. Identify the various gauges of shotguns. Explain which one you would pick for use and why.
e. Identify and explain the fundamentals of safely shooting a shotgun.
f. Identify and explain each rule for safely shooting a shotgun.
g. Demonstrate the knowledge, skills, and attitude necessary to safely shoot moving targets, using the fundamentals of shotgun shooting.
h. Identify the materials needed to clean a shotgun.
i. Demonstrate how to clean a shotgun safely.
j. Discuss what points you would consider in selecting a shotgun.
k. Shooting score required: Hit at least 12 (48 percent) out of 25 targets in two 25-target groups. The two groups need not be shot in consecutive order.
Shooting skill rules:

* Targets may be thrown by a hand trap, manual mechanical, or on any trap or skeet field. Note: If using a hand trap or manual mechanical trap, the trap operator should be at least five feet to the right and three feet to the rear of the shooter. If throwing left-handed with a hand trap this should be reversed.
* All targets should be thrown at a reasonable speed and in the same direction.
* Targets should be generally thrown so as to climb in the air after leaving the trap.
* Scores may be fired at any time, either in formal competition or in practice.
* Any gauge shotgun not exceeding 12 gauge may be used.
* Standard clay targets customarily used for trap and skeet are to be used.
* Any ammunition, either factory or hand loaded, may be used.
* Shooters must shoot in rounds of 25. Rounds need not be shot continuously or on the same day (the term "round" refers to a single series of 25 shots).
* If using a trap field, shoot station 3 with traps set to throw straightaway targets.
* If using a skeet field, shoot station 7 low house.

OPTION B: MUZZLE-LOADING SHOTGUN SHOOTING
a. Discuss a brief history of the development of the muzzle-loading shotgun.
b. Identify principal parts of percussion and flintlock shotguns and discuss how they function.
c. Demonstrate and discuss safe handling rules of a muzzle-loading shotgun.
d. Identify the various grades of black powder and their proper use.
e. Discuss proper safety procedures pertaining to black powder use and storage.
f. Discuss proper components of a load.
g. Identify proper procedures and accessories used for loading a muzzle-loading shotgun.
h. Demonstrate knowledge, skill, and attitude necessary to safely shoot a muzzle-loading shotgun on a range, including range procedures.
i. Shoot a moving target with a muzzle-loading shotgun using the five fundamentals of firing the shot.
j. Identify the materials needed to clean a muzzle-loading shotgun properly and safely.
k. Demonstrate how to clean a muzzle-loading shotgun safely.
l. Identify the causes of a muzzle-loading shotgun's failing to fire and explain or demonstrate proper correction procedures.
m. Discuss what points you would consider if selecting a muzzle-loading shotgun.
n. Shooting score required: "Hit at least five out of 15 targets. The two groups need not be shot in consecutive order.
Shooting skill rules:
* Targets may be thrown by a hand trap, manual mechanical, or on any trap or skeet field. Note: If using a hand trap or manual mechanical trap, the trap operator should be at least five feet to the right and three feet to the rear of the shooter. If throwing left-handed with a hand trap this should be reversed.
* All targets should be thrown at a reasonable speed and in the same direction.
* Targets should be generally thrown so as to climb in the air after leaving the trap.
* Scores may be fired at any time, either in formal competition or in practice.
* Any gauge shotgun not exceeding 10 gauge may be used.
* Standard clay targets customarily used for trap and skeet are to be used.
* On a standard trap field, the shooter should be positioned 8 yards behind the trap house. The trap should be set to throw only straightaway targets
* If using a skeet field, shoot station 7 low house.


The hunting prificiency would be demonstrated in requirements: 1e, 1f1, 1f2; then under Option A: 2d, 2j; then under Option B: 2m.

 

[santaman2000]

The BSA has 4 different levels of Scouts: Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts, Venture Scouts and Varsity Scouts. A higher level of qualification is required for members of the Venturing program which is defined as follows:

Venturing is a year-round program for young men and women who are 14 (and have completed the eighth grade) through 20 years of age to provide positive experiences through exciting and meaningful youth-run activities that help them pursue their special interests, grow by teaching others, and develop leadership skills.

Sea Scouting

Sea Scouts is a specialized segment of the Venturing program, which was organized to address members' boating skills and promote knowledge of our maritime heritage. Swimming, lifesaving, first aid, Coast Guard Auxiliary Sailing and Seamanship, and cardiopulmonary resuscitation courses are taught with the ship by its officers.

Their shooting sports award philosophy and requirements are:

Venturing Shooting Sports Outstanding Achievement Award
From MeritBadgeDotOrg
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Venturing Shooting Sports Outstanding Achievement Award. Medal is pinned immediately above the seam of the left pocket.
Venturing Shooting Sports Outstanding Achievement Award. Medal is pinned immediately above the seam of the left pocket.
Contents
[hide]

* 1 Award requirements
o 1.1 Procedure
* 2 Notes
* 3 Help with these requirements
* 4 See also
* 5 External links

Award requirements

Awarded to Ranger candidates who complete five of the shooting disciplines within the Shooting Sports (Ranger Award elective).
Procedure

While working on the Ranger Shooting Sports elective, Venturers are required to complete one of the following disciplines:

* Air pistol
* Air rifle
* Archery
* Muzzle-loading rifle
* Shotgun
* Pistol
* Small bore rifle

However, those completing five of these seven disciplines will earn the Venturing Shooting Sports Outstanding Achievement Award. Recipients are awarded a medal and certificate.

Notes

This award is sponsored by many companies and organizations in the shooting sports industry to recognize outstanding achievement in shooting sports.

 

[decorum]

Our rough equivalent is Master-at-Arms. From your quotes/info, it seems that American scouts have had the actual hunting taken out ~ which is a pity.

BTW, until recently I was a qualified NRSA 'instructorcoachtype thing' ~ hence my interest.

 

[santaman2000]

Our rough equivalent is Master-at-Arms. From your quotes/info, it seems that American scouts have had the actual hunting taken out ~ which is a pity.

BTW, until recently I was a qualified NRSA 'instructorcoachtype thing' ~ hence my interest.

Yeah, the hunting part does seem to have been gutted but I'm afraid we're not as far off as we're going to be. It seems from this thread that a hunting requirement has not only been removed in the UK but it is actively discouraged. I fear we are moving in that direction also. I am also a Life Member of the NRA and retired from the forces after 21+ years and retired again after 12+ years in law enforcement. Add to that that I grew up in the countryside hunting, fishing and generally enjoying an outdoor environment so I to have a keen interest in hunting and bows & firearms in general.

 

[decorum]

... It seems from this thread that a hunting requirement has not only been removed in the UK but it is actively discouraged...

Whether hunting is discouraged will be down to the individual instructor ~ and attempting to pass on _personal leanings_ are a bias that will hold true for most (if not all) disciplines.
From what I've seen, hunting and the role of an air rifle, does get talked about during training sessions.

There are conditions under which a UK scout may hunt as part of an official, organised activity ~ but you need to know and understand the rules.


I think the biggest difference is that here in the UK, hunting doesn't form a great part of our cultural identity ~ and hasn't for a long, long time. IIRC this is primarily due to the land being in private hands rather than being held in trust for the people of the land.

 

[santaman2000]

Whether hunting is discouraged will be down to the individual instructor ~ and attempting to pass on _personal leanings_ are a bias that will hold true for most (if not all) disciplines.
From what I've seen, hunting and the role of an air rifle, does get talked about during training sessions.

There are conditions under which a UK scout may hunt as part of an official, organised activity ~ but you need to know and understand the rules.


I think the biggest difference is that here in the UK, hunting doesn't form a great part of our cultural identity ~ and hasn't for a long, long time. IIRC this is primarily due to the land being in private hands rather than being held in trust for the people of the land.

That's what I meant by saying I fear we're going in that direction too. Urbanization is an ongoing fact that I don't see reversing. As you said their is a cultural difference also. I stated on another thread how our hunting demographics are largely reversed. Here we have people of all economic classes hunting but it is largely a lower to middle income activity (we still have subsistence hunters also) while the upper income peoples are gravitating towards golf or similar. Not universally mind you but largely. This in contrast to what I remember UK hunting culture whereas it was an expensive pursuit olny the upper income could afford (or as you said, private landowners) I wish more people on both sides of the Atlantic could have a better understanding of the role of hunting in wildlife management. It tends to deteriorate into a more emotional and less rational argument here.

 

[brancho]

i would think that the knife throwing would be a no no..

Not banned but needs to be carefully run in correct context with the correct tools.

but can a knife be worn on the belt during flag break etc. if the scout is allowed to bring it along to meetings to use during the meeting,but has nothing to do with uniform?

A sheath knife is no longer part of the uniform of TSA and so no.

UK Scouts don't hunt.

The TSA (there are other Scouts associations in the UK) does not even allow shooting at animal shaped targets.

 

[santaman2000]

Not banned but needs to be carefully run in correct context with the correct tools.



A sheath knife is no longer part of the uniform of TSA and so no.



The TSA (there are other Scouts associations in the UK) does not even allow shooting at animal shaped targets.

That's why we were discussing hunting. I had asked how they got their hunting merit badge if they can't even shoot at animal shaped targets. Originally someone had asked about field archery.

 

[GordonM]

Also, to add to the info santaman2000 has posted regarding the Venturing Ranger Award, there is an actual hunting elective the Venture Scout can choose in earning this award. The hunting elective requirements are...

Hunting (Ranger Award elective) requirements

Requirement 1. Hunter education and enforcement
a. Successfully complete a hunter education course offered by your state wildlife/conservation agency.
b. Learn and explain the requirements to become a volunteer hunter education instructor in your state.
c. Explain how to report a wildlife-related violation to the appropriate law enforcement agency.

Requirement 2. Do (a), (b), or (c).
a. Successfully complete a bowhunter education course offered by your state or the National Bowhunter Education Foundation.
b. Successfully complete a National Muzzle Loading Rifle Association Rifle Basic course.
c. Participate in a National Rifle Association-International Hunter Education Association Youth Hunter Education Challenge event sponsored by your state.

Requirement 3. Do (a), (b), or (c).
a. Assist a certified hunter education instructor with a hunter education course.
b. Either plan or assist in putting on a National Hunting and Fishing Day program.
c. Talk with a game warden/ conservation officer about his/her job. If possible, observe/assist at a game check station in your state.

Requirement 4. Plan and carry out a hunting trip approved by an Advisor.

Requirement 5. Make a tabletop display or presentation on what you have learned for your crew, another crew, a Cub or Boy Scout group, or another youth group.

Source:
Venturer / Ranger Handbook (BSA Supply No. 33494)

So, if the Scout chooses this elective, then actual hunting is a part of the requirements.

YIS,

Gordy

 

[GordonM]

In the BSA, Scouts learn how to use wood's tools (knife, saw and axe) and the privilege to carry and use them at Scouting activities, by earning a Totin' Chip card. (BSA Supply No. 34397)

From the reverse of the card -
This certification grants a Scout the right to carry and use woods tools. The Scout must show his Scout leader, or someone designated by his leader, that he understands his responsibility to do the following:
1. Read and understand woods tools use and safety rules from the Boy Scout Handbook.
2. Demonstrate proper handling, care, and use of the pocket knife, ax, and saw.
3. Use the knife, ax, and saw as tools, not playthings.
4. Respect all safety rules to protect others.
5. Respect property. Cut living and dead trees only with permission and with good reason.
6. Subscribe to the Outdoor Code.

The Scout's "Totin' Rights" can be taken from him if he fails in his responsibility.

The BSA does not have an "official policy" on sheath knives, though many Council camps do not allow them. Here is the BSA's "guidelines" on knives. This is taken from The Guide to Safe Scouting available online at the BSA's official website.

A sharp pocketknife with a can opener on it is an invaluable backcountry tool. Keep it clean, sharp, and handy. Avoid large sheath knives. They are heavy and awkward to carry, and unnecessary for most camp chores except for cleaning fish. Since its inception, Boy Scouting has relied heavily on an outdoor program to achieve its objectives. This program meets more of the purposes of Scouting than any other single feature. We believe we have a duty to instill in our members, youth and adult, the knowledge of how to use, handle, and store legally owned knives with the highest concern for safety and responsibility.

Remember—knives are not allowed on school premises, nor can they be taken aboard commercial aircraft.

YIS,

Gordy

 

[santaman2000]

In the BSA, Scouts learn how to use wood's tools (knife, saw and axe) and the privilege to carry and use them at Scouting activities, by earning a Totin' Chip card. (BSA Supply No. 34397)

From the reverse of the card -
This certification grants a Scout the right to carry and use woods tools. The Scout must show his Scout leader, or someone designated by his leader, that he understands his responsibility to do the following:
1. Read and understand woods tools use and safety rules from the Boy Scout Handbook.
2. Demonstrate proper handling, care, and use of the pocket knife, ax, and saw.
3. Use the knife, ax, and saw as tools, not playthings.
4. Respect all safety rules to protect others.
5. Respect property. Cut living and dead trees only with permission and with good reason.
6. Subscribe to the Outdoor Code.

The Scout's "Totin' Rights" can be taken from him if he fails in his responsibility.

The BSA does not have an "official policy" on sheath knives, though many Council camps do not allow them. Here is the BSA's "guidelines" on knives. This is taken from The Guide to Safe Scouting available online at the BSA's official website.

A sharp pocketknife with a can opener on it is an invaluable backcountry tool. Keep it clean, sharp, and handy. Avoid large sheath knives. They are heavy and awkward to carry, and unnecessary for most camp chores except for cleaning fish. Since its inception, Boy Scouting has relied heavily on an outdoor program to achieve its objectives. This program meets more of the purposes of Scouting than any other single feature. We believe we have a duty to instill in our members, youth and adult, the knowledge of how to use, handle, and store legally owned knives with the highest concern for safety and responsibility.

Remember—knives are not allowed on school premises, nor can they be taken aboard commercial aircraft.

YIS,

Gordy

Thanks G. I want to add a couple of things myself.

1st: That last statement about not being allowed on commercial arcraft is a bit misleading. They ARE allowed but only in locked baggage that is checked in to the cargo compartment and not accesable to the passengers. They are NOT allowed as part of your carry-on.

2nd: Happy Birthday to the BSA!!! This month they turned 101 years old. Last night I celebrated the event with my Godson at the Cub Scouts annual Blue & Gold Banquet where he was awarded his Sr. Webelos rank. Thank you Baden Powell. Thank you to the leaders, sponsers, parents and supporters of The Florida Gulf Coast Council, Pack 530 and Den 4.

P.S. Gordon, are you still involved in Scouting/Venturing?

 

[brancho]

So now you can see that there are few differences between the TSA and BSA.

There are a lot more association out there too.

 

[Tony]

Thanks for the Spam reporting