Activities Scouts are not allowed to do

[Dave Budd]

When I wrote the article I phoned head office and asked them for the official line. I called them three seperate times to see if I got different answers. They all pointed me to the same rule book.

So I would say that your dad has just been miss-led like so many others. Sorry. On the bright side, he can now let the scouts loose with knives again

Here is what The Drewsteignton and Chagford scouts will be using on their next camp

they started off with this kit and did everything themselves using hand tools

 

[Logit]

my guys being explorers all have a Mora Frost, they bring it along to unit nights that i designate, but like Dave budd says, i give them plenty of opportunities!!

 

[FGYT]

you would hope so but i doubt it the rules do say only uses a bigger knife and not a folder if you doing bigger tasks like splitting wood

The vast majority of Scout use will only require the use of a pen or clasp knife, the cutting of string, cooking or whittling. Where you have a larger task, such as splitting wood, a larger knife such as a sheath knife may be appropriate.

and when i showed him my orange Clipper and said this is the one Blue peter used and it would make a good scout knife he replyed those ar the ones you kill people with meaning sheath knives in general . bearing in mined when i was a scout he used to wear a 8" razor sharp bowie knife ofton forgetting it was on when at camp and go shopping etc

those are knive kits and ideal for scouts they might be in danger of learning something tho

ATB

Duncan

 

[phaserrifle]

Sorry but as a scout leader and an ex soldier,I have to say that our scouts are not trained in camouflage and concealment, escape and evasion, pyros, explosives/domolitions and we certainly dont encourage them to kill anyone

I believe that the kids who want to do that sort of stuff join army cadets....
according to a mate who was one (although I will say he does over exadurate on occasion):
camoflage and concealment.....yes
escape and evasion......to a degree
pyros.......yes (I'm assuming that thunderflashes count)
explosives/demolitions.......alegedly (he claims he got taught how to make napalm, although he now denies saying this )
so we're just down to not encouraging to them kill each other.

 

[brancho]

you would hope so but i doubt it the rules do say only uses a bigger knife and not a folder if you doing bigger tasks like splitting wood

Duncan
This guidance not a rule.
The only rule regaurding knives in the UK Scout association is that a knife may not be worn as part of the uniform. A knife was originally part of the uniform.
Rule 10.2 B says
b. Knives may not be worn with uniform except for religious reasons.

The rule book POR

Feel free to point the rule you quote.

 

[FGYT]

your quite right those are the 2 links i posted earlier should have repeaded it in that post to
and yes thats guidance not policey

however like HSE guidance does become a Benck mark which you best have a very air tight reason to go against the 25kg max lift recommendation for example you find any company that dosnt state it as Max rule

after further discussion and showing him this thread hes going to try and find it it may have been a District ruling or fo rspecific camps etc


ATB

Duncan

 

[brancho]

after further discussion and showing him this thread hes going to try and find it it may have been a District ruling or fo rspecific camps etc

This is a common problem LOCAL RULES and if thats what it is I would deliberately go against it and take it further if I felt inclined:BlueTeamE

 

[dasy2k1]

Back to the original topic there are only 3 explicitly banned activities...

Paintball
Bungee Jumping
Towing of inflatables behind powerboats (eg banana boating)

all other activities are permitted but possible with various rules attached.

eg shooting needs a signed parental consent form and the targets cant represent humans or animals. (live quarry also forbidden)
(note scouts can shoot any type of gun depending on having a suitable range and qualified instructor.... Nowhere in POR does it limit you to only air rifles.. Ive heard of explorers shooting full bore rifles at the local TA range)

 

[tomongoose]

I run a Paintball, Laser, Airsoft and field archery site and the scouts locally are not allowed to do any of the activities including the laser as there guidelines do not allow them to shoot a living target or representation of a living target but the local schools come out for paintball all the time with no bother.

 

[cbkernow]

Rule 9.39 Paintball Games
a. Members may not take part in the activity
known as 'paintball' (or any similar activity).
b. Paintball games may not take place on
property owned or leased by, or used in the
name of, the Scout Movement.

Rule 9.40 Laser Games
a. Laser Games remain an optional Scouting
activity without age limit but with the
knowledge of parents.
b. Parental permission is required for laser clay
pigeon shooting.


Not sure why laser clay pigeon shooting needs specific permission, maybe because it tends to use lifelike weapons rather than the kind we tend to use for laser tag (though they seem to be getting more realistic now, saw an AK 47 laser gun once!!)

I presume it means we can't shoot "projectiles" at human/animal targets which rules out paintball and airsoft, but altering field archery to use bulls eye targets should be fine.

 

[PeterH]

I presume it means we can't shoot "projectiles" at human/animal targets which rules out paintball and airsoft, but altering field archery to use bulls eye targets should be fine.

YES ..... there is no problem with field archery in scouts as long as it is run within their rules and to GNAS standards (whatever the latter are but that is a whole different topic)

There was a field round in the 1st National Scout Archery Comp at Gilwell, dont know if there still is. Just use FITA field targets (ie yellow and black roundels) instead of Hunter etc paper or 3D targets. Safe and appropriate course setting is more challenging than what colour the piece of paper is! Sorry but I don't understand why some people seem have such a problem simply working within the rules and devising something challenging / enjoyable for the kids.

Peter
(who happens to be, but is not speaking as, Scout District Commissioner and a GNAS Coach)

 

[PeterH]

I run a Paintball, Laser, Airsoft and field archery site and the scouts locally are not allowed to do any of the activities including the laser as there guidelines do not allow them to shoot a living target or representation of a living target but the local schools come out for paintball all the time with no bother.

An operator near to me asked me to distribute - and therefore tacitly approve - an offering. I replied that I could not as
a. I had never visited and
b. the flier said airsoft and paintball which was not acceptable.

Reply was still no invitation to visit (I drive past quite often) and "Oh I did not mean that was included, we would take it out for scout groups". OK but you need to not put it in the flier and make it clear what they DO get.

Never heard anything else so I assume he was not really going to alter his business offering at all. :sadwavey:

It probably could have worked but hey there are plenty of other site operators who will want the business when the stag parties and testostoren run out .......

 

[Melonfish]

I wonder if this is why the scouts and whatnot are always crying out for volunteers to lead packs? because the hell & safety wooly mitten bunch have had their way with baden powell's ethos and "it just ain't what it used to be" ?

 

[locum76]

I heard the scouts weren't allowed to indulge in goat tinkering.

 

[brancho]

the hell & safety wooly mitten bunch have had their way with baden powell's ethos and "it just ain't what it used to be" ?

This may be a perception but its not reality.

 

[brancho]

I heard the scouts weren't allowed to indulge in goat tinkering.

Not sure what that entails so I cant answer

 

[Mike_B]

http://www.scouts.org.uk/news/225/scouting-refutes-knife-ban-claims

I became a Scout in 1967 and wore a sheath knife to meetings. This entailed walking or cycling thro urban streets. Later in life, as a Troop Leader, Venture Leader, GSL and ADC(LT) over the years, I never saw any reason why it was necessary to carry a sheath knife at camp and found it far easier to carry and use a folder. If nothing else, it set a powerful example to the yp/children/Scouts as we had a mutally agreed "local (District) rule" against sheath knives being used by them, under any circumstances. Folders were, of course, allowed under appropriate circumstances.

There were very good reasons for that, given the area we operated in, one with very significant social issues and where "knife culture" was a significant social problem.

Although no longer in the Movement, I still don't use a sheath knife in my outdoor activities. That said, that's my personal choice and while I recognise the value and practicality of such a tool I've yet to find anything my folder can't do that my sheath knife can do better.

Much will come down to the quality of training in safe knife usage and sadly there are still too many Scouters who want to carry machetes or "rambo knives" on their belts. That this may serve some purpose for them, either practically or to fulfill some personal ego need is a little difficult when they are also serving as role models for Scouts, many of whom will possibly seek to emulate people they admire and respect.

All that said, if yp are taught the safe use of a knife in Scouts, that knowledge will quite probably stay with them for the rest of their lives and I'm delighted to see the Movement taking a sensible and realistic line. Scouting without being able to use a knife is not Scouting.

Mike.

 

[The Lord Poncho]

Sorry but as a scout leader and an ex soldier,I have to say that our scouts are not trained in camouflage and concealment, escape and evasion, pyros, explosives/domolitions and we certainly don’t encourage them to kill anyone

Ok, I’m quoting an old post, but as a Scout Leader I can say our Explorers are trained in Camouflage and Concealment, Escape and Evasion, Tactical Movement, Tactical route planning, voice procedure and use of radios etc, and more besides! These skills are not the preserve of the forces, but can be used to add excitement and flavour to training which develops attributes and skills in young people whilst certainly not encouraging them to kill one another.

Each year we run an Escape and Evasion weekend for the Explorer Scouts in the district. Without exception, it's the most popular event we run in the annual programme, and involves navigating across large tracts of forest to checkpoints, undertaking challenges at those checkpoints in return for points, and trying to escape a marauding bunch of leaders and the attentions of their fearsome flour bombs. The exercise commences with themed training on the Friday night, sometimes involving a casualty evacuation exercise/stretcher run, and starts for real early Saturday morning when the teams are set off. They are then on their own until early afternoon Sunday completing the course and bivying out all night.

Some could say that this is military training, and certainly there seems to be a fair representation of DPM at the events. But i would argue that the aims of this training is very different to that provided by the military- our aims are to use it as a tool to build up fantastic skills in the participants- all the usual team work, self reliance, problem solving, leadership etc etc.

Certainly more fun and worthwhile than anything I ever did in Cadets!

 

[santaman2000]

Back to the original topic there are only 3 explicitly banned activities...

Paintball
Bungee Jumping
Towing of inflatables behind powerboats (eg banana boating)

all other activities are permitted but possible with various rules attached.

eg shooting needs a signed parental consent form and the targets cant represent humans or animals. (live quarry also forbidden)
(note scouts can shoot any type of gun depending on having a suitable range and qualified instructor.... Nowhere in POR does it limit you to only air rifles.. Ive heard of explorers shooting full bore rifles at the local TA range)

Quick question: If they cain't shoot live quarry, how do they earn their hunting merit badge?

 

[santaman2000]

Let's see if I understand this. Although the exact rule are a bit fuzzy, the usual practice is for the Scouts to only have a knife for a specific task under supervision then turn it back in? That sounds exactly the way we treated the convicts working in the prison kitchen while I was a correctional officer.