Abrupt awakening

[stooboy]

No...I am just offering the other side. I also stated "Still, its good in theory that we are in a society where we can complain". Just my opinion, but hey...opinions are like toe cheese....everyone has one.

Lets remember though:

1. Fire without permission

2. Illegal number plate "so effectively the car ive been driving the past week was illegal."

3. Joe Public reported "dodgy" car and Police investigated

4. One cop seemed good natured and had a chat. He was even labelled "Good cop" by the thread author. (But both were complained about)

Lets complain where we have to BUT give praise where its due. If ones car is stolen and the cops find it they are heroes....if its not nicked but due to wrong plate then they are to be criticized?

Thats all.

The complaint was not about being asked why we where not at work but about being asked to move on.

In answer to the questions

1. Maybe so but some discussion here was inconclusive. It was hardly Guy Fawkes as you can see from the pictures.

2. That was my fear and interpretation of the law, however, I think i would have had a strong case against arnold clark as Im aware that dealerships are not allowed to sell vehicles that are untaxed or without at least 6 months MOT so selling one with the wrong plate would probably fall under that category. The car stills showed as registered to trade and not me, so again another legal gray area.

3. apparently an "abandoned" car had been reported, abandoned cars don't have nearby owners camping in the woods, so which was it abandoned or the land owner had asked us to be moved on? My assumption was this was decided upon by bad cop.

4. In a professional body, if one professional sees another do something wrong then it is their duty to inform them of that ? I wouldnt allow another electrician to wire up a plug that may cause harm and then sleep at night and think, maybe should have said summit about that to "Jimmy" I'll let him keep wiring the plugs up wrong till he kills himself or someone else?

It does show good policing that instead of whacking a "police aware" sticker on it and heading off they investigated further, there was coincidentally a dead body found not a cpl of week prior to an "abandoned" focus like mine (http://news.scotsman.com/latestnews/Daughter-is-arrested-over-body.4651192.jp ), possibly did prompt more investigation. And if you read we did argue the fact about the land reform act to the officers.

I think our reaction was fair, and the outcome favorable to all unless you are implying that those officers now as punishment will be sent to Guantanamo for a couple of weeks ?

Regards
Stoo.

 

[stooboy]

Well I do agree, I am not trying to be controversial, just trying to get things into perspective.

If the cops wanted to they could have arrested both of them for Theft of Motor Vehicle as the Reg would not have matched up with the Vin. This would make the arrest lawful. Plus the entire camp could have been searched for evidence relating to the "theft".

FYI the last release of the Police Statute books are over 11,000 pages of legislation.

Lets face it the author of the thread originally said he was not going to complain, perhaps he was egged on by others here who may have a different agenda...perhaps not. I'm just keeping an open mind

Arrested!, only one of the plates was incorrect and the vehicle was taxed to the correct plate as per the V5, and also an insurance check showed my credentials.

I am the author of the thread and it was my fellow bushcrafter who complained and i have no problems with that, and I believe he was justified.

 

[Flasheart]

Stoo,

Thank you for your well though out response....you have accepted that the Police did "some" good and that you were partially in the wrong. Maybe its late and maybe I'm completely wrong, it just seemed that you were not going to complain until others jumped on your bandwagon.

Tod,

If I disagree I am "stirring"....I suppose some may suggest that I am now a "troll"

 

[Flasheart]

Arrested!, only one of the plates was incorrect and the vehicle was taxed to the correct plate as per the V5, and also an insurance check showed my credentials.

I am the author of the thread and it was my fellow bushcrafter who complained and i have no problems with that, and I believe he was justified.

Yes arrested....if they wanted you could have been taken in and the truth found out after interview. They would have been complete arses to have done that but they didn't. Trust me I have known worse mis-justices happen.

 

[Flasheart]

Hey listen gang, we obviously disagree. Lets leave it at that.

I wish you all well and hopefully all parties have learned from this

 

[verloc]

Interesting post Flash,

As the author of the complaint and also the person that the police initially spoke to I would like to be afforded the right of reply,

First of all, suggesting that the original poster did not intend to complain is of no consequence. As stated I was the person who initially spoke to the police when they arrived at the site. The issue of the car was dealt with very swiftly and with a sensible outcome relating to a clerical error by the motor trade (which as pointed out earlier in this thread is a common occurrence) - a licence plate supplied by a licensed number plate supplier as stipulated and registered with DVLA. At no time did either of the officers reflect that this was going to be a problem and that the issue was clearly a clerical error.

My complaint contained no reference to how the this was handled.

As for suggesting a quiet word I would like to ask you to read the original posts again and you will see that I did politely inform the officers that I believed their understanding of the legislation to be incorrect - however this proved ineffective.

I had every intention of making a complaint regarding the issue of the Land Access / Usage and I can assure you that I require no one to "egg" me on or make my mind up for me.. The original post may have been made by stooboy but if he had not made the post then I would have, it was merely a case of who penned it first.

Whilst you may see my complaint as petty I would like to remind you that in the United Kingdom (and even Scotland) the Police do not make the law, nor do they reserve the right to decide which aspects to enforce or which laws can be "bent" to suit a purpose. The law afforded me these rights that I had exercised. As a Tax Payer and a member of the Public that the police force is there to protect and serve I have every right to complain if I feel the situation warrants it.

If I may I would like to address a couple of your comments directly,

"and you complained because one of them said "Not at work today lads?"
No law was being broken and yes I do believe that in this circumstance that this question is irrelevant and certainly none of their business how I spend my time when not at work (or indeed when I work) if done so legally

"Perspective please.....complaints of this nature pile up and eventually a Cop becomes too fearful of reprisal to do their job effectively."
See above regarding my right to complain and I would argue just how effectively a "Cop" is doing their job if they do not have the correct understanding of the laws that they are enforcing??[/I}

"Rather than get rank involved, a quiet word with the Officer may have gone a long way."
Again see above

"Still, its good in theory that we are in a society where we can complain....I just don't think everyone should exercise it all the time."
Fortunately it is down to the individual to decide if they have valid grounds to initiate a complaint and it is a right that we all have

"1. Fire without permission"
A fire is permitted (in Scotland) as long as it is small, under control and supervised at all times - and not situated in plantation.(please see the Scottish Outdoor Access Code) - All conditions which were met.

"4. One cop seemed good natured and had a chat. He was even labelled "Good cop" by the thread author. (But both were complained about)" - Both officers were in agreement that we were breaking the law - hence complaint about both officers.

I work with Tayside Police closely in my area of work in Primary Care and I had every confidence that this issue would be dealt with in the efficient and satisfactory manner and I am very happy to say that this has been the case but please do not assume to attempt to infringe or belittle my rights that I am entitled to. Again all the actions that have taken place since the complaint and the ultimate outcome of a better understanding of the relevant law for the Officers has been achieved and will ultimately look to reduce complaints of this nature in the future - I do not mean to patronise but this is how improvement is made, otherwise we continue in the same manner and have to "firefight" issues when they arise rather than taken a proactive approach to making things better.

Now that was hell of a long to post to type if this was to just get a reaction

Tom

 

[Flasheart]

Tom,

You are right....in my haste I misread the author v complainer and for that I sincerely apologise.

I guess I jumped to the wrong conclusion and in that aspect I was out of order. My posts however were not intended to wind people up or "stir" as one person put it.

I just hope that if you do work with them closely and are happy with their actions in other areas of you life that you are just as quick to write a letter of compliment as you were the letter of complaint.

Anyway as stated before we will disagree regarding the complaint, but thats one of those things.

I wish you well and hope you stand up for your rights better next time and enjoy a wild camp.

 

[verloc]

Tom,

You are right....in my haste I misread the author v complainer and for that I sincerely apologise.

I guess I jumped to the wrong conclusion and in that aspect I was out of order. My posts however were not intended to wind people up or "stir" as one person put it.

I just hope that if you do work with them closely and are happy with their actions in other areas of you life that you are just as quick to write a letter of compliment as you were the letter of complaint.

Anyway as stated before we will disagree regarding the complaint, but thats one of those things.

I wish you well and hope you stand up for your rights better next time and enjoy a wild camp.

thanks flash,

I am certainly very quick to praise and compliment when it is deserved and in fact my letter thanking the super has already been sent off wrt to this incident.

Without wanting to drag this on im not too sure what more i could have dont to stand up better for my rights at the time but in the interest of inner forum harmony (and the fact it is BC -before coffee and also BBB - before bacon buttie) I think this would be a good place to reciprocate your good wishes and agree to disagree

Cheers
Tom

 

[Flasheart]

Tom,

Thanks...this is what makes this forum great (I am relatively new to it) people can disagree in a polite manner without resorting to insults and "trolling"

Now if you want a real argument lets get into the Mears V Grylls debate lol

(Although I think we both agree ion that one having read a few of your posts)

Take care old bean,

Nick