A question for the metal bashers

[Hammock Hamster]

Hi all,

Having lived in a flat for the last several years me and swmbo are due to move in about 6 months where I will have a garden and more importantly a shed to call my own where I'm hoping to expand my bushy/craft activities.

One thing I have always wanted to try is a bit of forging and hope to put together a DIY charcoal or gas forge dependant on area/neighbours and what I can get away with.

I realise this might be a bit of a daft question which will also depend on neighbours to a degree but I was wondering what experiences anyone else has had with DIY forging in a residential area.
I'm mainly thinking of noise, the ringing of hammer on anvil, as well as potential charcoal smoke though I can get round the second one if needs be.

I know many on here have the benefit of a fairly isolated locations for black smithing, not that I'm jealous at all, but wondered if anyone has had problems in a more built up area with neighbours and the like.

Any tips for creating a back garden forge, whether it would be possible/safe to put an anvil inside the shed to try and cut down on noise (obviously the forge would stay outside) etc... Would be greatly appreciated.

All the best, Hamster

 

[Everything Mac]

My forge is in a residential area, aka my garden... I'm surrounded by other houses.

Common sense is the winner here. I don't start early in the morning and I stop when it gets dark in the winter and by 6pm at the latest in summer. Basically the hours people will likely be at work.

I had a smoke complaint letter from the council when I was making my own charcoal so try to just buy in your fuel.

And yes, the anvil goes in the shed to reduce noise. I also stick a big magnet on it and wrap it in chain to keep the noise down.

If you can mount the anvil onto a concrete base. The wooden floor of my shed moves around when bashing and makes the anvil wobble.

Any questions just ask.

All the best
Andy

 

[Dave Budd]

I had a small forge in my back garden when I lived in Exeter city centre. Do like Andy says and you should be ok. Also, I suggest a solid anvil rather than something like RSJ or railway, they make enough noise to wake the dead! I use a rectangular stake anvil myself most of the time because it is much quieter than a London pattern 10 times its weight

 

[Hammock Hamster]

Thanks guys thats really useful, i suppose my problem will be finding time as i work mon-fri but i can restrict things to socially acceptable hours at weekends.

Dave, i like the idea of the stake anvil but wonder if this will be large/versatile enough for some basic smithing? I have seen lots of variations online and most have quite a small face, i dont suppose you could post a pic of yours when you get chance so i can see the size/shape etc...
I already have a handy stump and suspect boring a hole and chiseling it square to seat the stake would help deaden the noise as well.

Cheers, Hamster

 

[Everything Mac]

I googled Dave and found this picture from Elen of this parish
https://elensentier.wordpress.com/bushcraft/bushcrafting-pictures/dave-budd-forging/

To be honest I'd go for a full size anvil over a stake anvil. You can achieve everything you want on a stake anvil but I've always found the lack of mass tiring. They also heat up very quickly and can get too hot to touch...

Look for a brooks 1cwt anvil, they're extremely common.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Blacksmiths-anvil-/171245874239?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item27df0cac3f

They have a tendency to ring like a bell though so you need to secure it to a stump with silicone sealant to deaden them.

Having said that, any anvil in good order will serve you very well.

All the best
Andy

 

[Hammock Hamster]

I googled Dave and found this picture from Elen of this parish
https://elensentier.wordpress.com/bushcraft/bushcrafting-pictures/dave-budd-forging/

To be honest I'd go for a full size anvil over a stake anvil. You can achieve everything you want on a stake anvil but I've always found the lack of mass tiring. They also heat up very quickly and can get too hot to touch...

Look for a brooks 1cwt anvil, they're extremely common.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Blacksmiths-anvil-/171245874239?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item27df0cac3f

They have a tendency to ring like a bell though so you need to secure it to a stump with silicone sealant to deaden them.

Having said that, any anvil in good order will serve you very well.

All the best
Andy

Thanks Andy thats really useful, im now in two minds as a "proper" anvil would be preferable but the stake does seem to address the noise issue etc...

I will have to do a bit more research in the next few months and see what i can get hold of, it may be a stake is the way to go to begin with and will at least let me practice the basic techniques and some smaller projects and should give an indication as to whether im going to get any greif from the neighbours.

I may well be pestering you, dave and few other once im set up for some tips and advice if thats ok.

All the best, Hamster

 

[Everything Mac]

Sand box anvil stand.

by by far the quietest I'm told.

Andy

 

[Dave Budd]

That's not the stake anvil I meant, but I have forged axes, drawknives and froes on it at shows without any trouble. It doesn't make as much noise as a 100lb london pattern because there are fewer thin sections to vibrate and the ground is so close to the metal that it absorbs the vibrations more effectively. A normal T-stake with long bits wouldn't be ideal as it would make a lot of noise, this one was modified from a large T-stake that I cut down a long time ago (so it is thicker where it counts and no long protrusions)

The anvil I use for 99% of the things I make is 4x5" on the top and about 7" tall. The only picture I have to hand is this one with both of my main anvils in the shot, the steak anvil is to the rear left


The log is buried in the ground, so it has about 300kg of oak and the whole planet for mass The size of the face of an anvil only NEEDS to be as big as your hammer, though a few time that size will make working much easier. The fact that it heats up is a real bonus. It doesn't suck the heat from your metal on cold days and the warm anvil keeps the heat in there for longer (I have a friend in Norway who preheats his big anvil with an electric iron over night so that he gets around this problem). Depending on what you want to make, the bells and whistle of a London pattern (ie bick and hardy) are not needed especially if you have a leg vice mounted on a post or on its own cast iron table (I would buy a leg vice over any other sort, they are invaluable for forge work and can be used as normal vices too).

I had been a full time smith for 6 years before I got a london pattern anvil and I mostly use it for straightening blades and laying things out on, or my cuppa. I often use the vice for hardy tools instead because most of my tooling has been acquired second hand and doesn't fit my anvil hardy hole. I can bend most shapes (including rings) using the square topped anvil, this is much quicker than taking the extra step to the other anvil and then only being able to start a ring on the large bick.

 

[Hammock Hamster]

Cheers Dave that makes sense! Hopefully I will be setting up the shed as a proper workshop and dependant on space I want a worktop, leg vice if there's room, stump/anvil and various tools. Ideal world there will be space for bench sander in there too for cleaning up and putting on edges etc...

 

[Everything Mac]

Cheers Dave that makes sense! Hopefully I will be setting up the shed as a proper workshop and dependant on space I want a worktop, leg vice if there's room, stump/anvil and various tools. Ideal world there will be space for bench sander in there too for cleaning up and putting on edges etc...

Ive squeezed all of those things and more into my 8x6' shed. But it is a tight squeeze at the best of times. Let alone with the monstrous amount of rubbish in there just now. Dying to go tidy it when the weather allows.

I concur with Dave on the leg vice front. They come up on eBay all the time and can be had cheap. Make sure you mount it to something good and solid. Bigger is better to a point. A 5-6" vice would serve you very well. I've a 5" vice and it is pretty solid. Vices are great for mounting the tools. Have a look over on Iforgeiron.com


Dave, where did you get that stake anvil from? You don't see them around much... I was looking at getting a decent sized block for an anvil like that for demos.
It's a fair point about them warming up and keeping the work warm. I have a tendency of leaning on the anvil so when it gets too hot it can get sore.,

Hamster, keep an eye out for a fork lift tine. It's a decent steel and would make an excellent anvil.



Andy

 

[lannyman8]

i suppose money is also a factor,but any good size block of steel will do,make sure its not mild steel though as it can crack bits of... i use a H beam which is loud as hell, enough to wake the dead....lol... but i only paid 20 quid cut and welded to make it thicker, i also have a mobile anvil now too, for when im teaching in the woods....

i have also used a sledge hammer head, which works ok, but needs to be flat, my one was slightly rounded so makes the steel bend a bit, but thats easy to sort out...

if noise is an issue dont use gas as it tends to roar loudly,but its easy to make one and very handy for heat treating blades ect... i would go with coke as fuel, its easy enough to get hold of through the coal supplier lasts quite some time too when forging, charcoal is good but burns up way to fast, if you get coke make sure you get the bean size stuff as it will save time burning down to size or breaking the stuff up....

most of all enjoy your self, its adictive if hard work mate so stand by....

any questions just ask,but dave is the main man....:notworthy

 

[Dave Budd]

the stump in the workshop came from a smith friend who had been using it as a door stop for years and knew I was after something to get me started when I first set myself up. I've picked a couple of others that are pretty similar in shape but a little smaller (4x4") from good old Ebay. I lean on my anvils and sit on them too, I've just learnt to treat EVERYTHING in the workshop as potentially hot!

I've also got a bunch of anvils that I've made for my forge school. They are made from fork lift tines welded to box section that is then filled with lead (or sand until I have enough lead to fill it), all then staked down in the same way. They are 4"x4" and 7" tall, a couple of them have hardy holes welded to the sides too

 

[Dan J]

These kind of forges are quite easy to make, however it might limit you size wise.

[video=youtube;jBVa2bw3r_k]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBVa2bw3r_k[/video]

You can also make something similar and run it off charcoal with a blower plumbed in through the side.
Makes it easier to build it to your size reqirements and cheaper to run than buying gas.

 

[Shovel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82TyALbco-I

Definitely check this video out. I don't need to worry about noise because I'm rather far away from neighbors, but putting it on a wood base, maybe with rubber will help a lot.

 

[Hammock Hamster]

These kind of forges are quite easy to make, however it might limit you size wise.

[video=youtube;jBVa2bw3r_k]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBVa2bw3r_k[/video]

You can also make something similar and run it off charcoal with a blower plumbed in through the side.
Makes it easier to build it to your size reqirements and cheaper to run than buying gas.

Dan, im one step ahead of you and have a few of the parts put by ready for once we move. I am probably going to have a play with both gas and charcoal (the romantic in me prefers the idea of charcoal but gas does made sense).

Cheers, Hamster

 

[Hammock Hamster]

Little bit of an update i was perusing evilbay and ended up making an impulse purchase based on Daves recomendation of a stake anvil.
Its face is 140mm long by 60mm wide so plenty of space and all in is about 7kg, it may not be the full sized anvil i would love but should be more than enough for my needs.

I just need to decide whether im going to cut the stake down a little to fit low in my stump or leave it full length.

Cheers Hamster

 

[Parbajtor]

You could always go down the fly press route if noise is really going to be an issue

 

[milius2]

Welcome to dirty hands club!

My friend has made himself a tiny forge in a small shipping container like this one:

it's just about enough for small stuff but the benefit of having everything under roof and locked is great! He lives in residential area in Norway, so space is scarce comodity and this is great idea, you have a ready building and fire proof. So have a look at the price of one, they are totally cheap used. Just open both doors and you have loads of space, face it to your house and the neibours wont hear much noise...

 

[Hammock Hamster]

Welcome to dirty hands club!

My friend has made himself a tiny forge in a small shipping container like this one:

it's just about enough for small stuff but the benefit of having everything under roof and locked is great! He lives in residential area in Norway, so space is scarce comodity and this is great idea, you have a ready building and fire proof. So have a look at the price of one, they are totally cheap used. Just open both doors and you have loads of space, face it to your house and the neibours wont hear much noise...

I really like that idea but I bet it it echoes like crazy, not sure I would be able to get away with a container in my garden In the areas I'm looking at moving to.

 

[Dave Budd]

that's a pretty little stake I would leave the stake long and just bury it deeper in the log. The trouble with the long shaft is that it will flex and lose you power, it also may just wobble about and drive you potty. If you cut it down then you lose any ability to use it as a full sized stake in the future if you want to.