A little experiment

Johnnyboy1971

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Dec 24, 2010
4,155
26
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Yorkshire
Just done a little experiment between my RM woodlore and my Enzo trapper kit that i bought the other day. First of all i split some dry wood(fencing timber) by batoning into finger thickness peices.

Next i took three peices per knife to feather them for kindling, both knives were sharp enough to shave the hairs from my arm before hand. I featherd all three peices of wood with each knife then tried to slice a sheet of copy paper.

Out of both knives the Trapper performed the better and remained the sharpest and was only half the price of the RM.

IMG-20110415-00032.jpg


Any comments as to why this may be

Many thanks john.
 

JonathanD

Ophiological Genius
Sep 3, 2004
12,815
1,511
Stourton,UK
It's all down to the user. A different person would get different results. The Enzo is obviously better suited to you. The sharpness can have something to do with grind, hardness and structure. Your Enzo seems to have a slight secondary bevel which would hold an edge much better than the RM low ground scandi.
 

Johnnyboy1971

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Dec 24, 2010
4,155
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The picture is a little decieving on the trapper as there is no secondery bevel just a reflection from the flash. It has been sharpened flat to the grind. There is however a difference in the hight of the grind.

I agree that the Trapper is probably more suited to me than the RM. They are also two different steels, trapper D2 and the RM 01.
 

Johnnyboy1971

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Dec 24, 2010
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Looking to get a couple more Trappers now as i really do prefer it to all my other knives. Just need to find someone who wants to sell some.
 

ged

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Jul 16, 2009
4,992
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In the woods if possible.
D2 is known for its edge holding qualities. It can be more difficult to sharpen though, and it will never take the fine edge that you can get with some of the more exotic steels. But when you're used to it I think it's an excellent choice for a working blade.
 

robevs73

Maker
Sep 17, 2008
3,025
204
llanelli
ged is right, one thing I would like to add is that D2 is a lot more brittle than o1 when ground fine, so it's more prone to chipping D2 is best convex or steep secondary bevel ground. thats my oppinion.
 

Johnnyboy1971

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Dec 24, 2010
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Thanks for that fellas. Didnt know that about D2 being brittle, will keep an eye on the edge.
The timber i used was quite soft so maybe give it a try on something harder and see if there is any difference in the two blades.
 

Siberianfury

Native
Jan 1, 1970
1,534
6
mendip hills, somerset
i use a D2 scandi trapper all the time, from carving to battoning trees and splitting logs, ive dropped it on concrete and twisted it in thick ash logs, an i have seen no damage what so ever, i wish i could say the same for the O1 knives i use. the steel keeps its edge magnificently, with only an occasional bit of stropping required to keep it hair featheringly sharp, im also keen on the fact that it doesnt rust as easily as plain carbon steels, all in all brilliant stuff. im a big fan of enzo trappers
 

ex-member Raikey

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Sep 4, 2010
2,971
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i like the trapper too,...


but i have a D2 Rat 3 and only ever sharpened it once,...

but i am weary with any heavy work,...

dont forgot 01 isnt the best steel for load bearing either,...
 

Johnnyboy1971

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Dec 24, 2010
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Going a little off line here guys but has anyone ever orded from Brisa finland. Is so what are your thoughts.
 

ex-member Raikey

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Sep 4, 2010
2,971
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yes mate but the postage is a bummer,...

best bet, get an order in with someone local to you and share the carriage ;)
 

Xunil

Settler
Jan 21, 2006
671
3
56
North East UK
www.bladesmith.co.uk
Comparison of steels is difficult at best.

The theory of design in relation to the steel's most salient properties is relatively simple:

certain steels allow you to grind the blade thinner because they may be tougher/less brittle, more shock absorbent, more wear resistant, and so on and so forth.

If you make 10 knives of 10 steels in the same thickness and height of grind that isn't a fair comparison because some steels could be ground thinner due to their properties, which other steels couldn't handle. A2 springs to mind here, and S30V from the stainless steels: you could easily make a thinner knife which by definition would be a more efficient slicing tool. In the case of A2, it is much tougher than D2 and if you decided to capitalise on this it might be more accurate a test to try a 2.5mm - 3mm thick A2 blade with a 4mm D2. And that doesn't take the massive variables of heat treating into account.

All you do by testing different steels with identical grind heights and thickness is find out which steel is best suited for that grind height/thickness combination in relation to the testing it is put through, which may or may not reflect real world tasks. This isn't to say that a test blade that manages fewer cuts is poorer steel - just that the design was not as suited to the material.

That's a lot of words to say that any testing has to be controlled and a good O1 blade will keep pace with most steels out there, unless the design has been reworked to fully capitalise on the steels characteristics properly.

Think of it as optimising the design to take the materials into account rather than inflicting a less than optimal design on some materials and hitting lucky with one or two.

In the above example the very obvious difference is the height of the grind which will give completely different results, even if both blades were made of the same steel.

Two factors govern knife performance above all others (not including the human element that the user brings to the mix):

1. heat treating

2. edge geometry

Any steel can be made into a good or bad knife, and any good knife can be used well or badly.

If your Woodlore had a higher grind or the Enzo a lower one, the story would be very different, regardless of whether they were O1 or D2.
 

Johnnyboy1971

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Dec 24, 2010
4,155
26
53
Yorkshire
Maybe a little overkill there but your right. As an average user for general work both knives will perform more than adequetly for my humble needs.
 

Xunil

Settler
Jan 21, 2006
671
3
56
North East UK
www.bladesmith.co.uk
If it's for Enzo blade blanks then try any of the UK stockists.

Hennie sometimes carries them, so does Moonraker Knives and a friend of mine ordered one recently from English Handmade Knives http://www.english-handmade-knives.co.uk/acatalog/EbZo_Fultang.html

No connection or affiliation to any of the above.

Other than that as has already been mentioned it can make a lot of sense to order stuff from Brisa as a small group where the high postage rates are split.
 

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