A different shelter design the "Zeltbahn"!

[sam_acw]

I must admit with the shelter halves we usually carried a pair buttoned together in one guys pack and the other guy would take the spare blanket or ground sheet.
The canves was quite stiff and with thin tin buttons it was really hard to join them up easily.
You could also get end segments which were triangular and about 4x3x3 feet. The idea with these was that you could cover up the open end.
Eventually (and bearing in mind this was between March and September) I gave up with the tents and just took extra blankets as these were just as versatile for stringing up as a shelter or rolling up in dpending on the conditions.

 

[arctic hobo]

I made one about 18 months ago, following another thread we had on here about them. Mine was of tough groundsheet plastic fabric, so not breathable at all, but since I didn't know anyone else with one I couldn't have made an enclosed tent so it didn't matter.
Simon's exactly right: they are useless on their own as tents. Mine, with the aid of a line and a tree would have sheltered your head and shoulders nicely, with some space for a small amount of kit, but no more.
However, the main reason I made it, as of course I realised this beforehand, was for use as a poncho. They are good for this, as your arms and legs are left very free, and they're easily flexible enough to fit a backpack underneath, so no worries about your bag getting wet. However, the fixings aren't ideal and can't be made so easily, and the fact that your legs are not covered means that they get wet - particularly, I found, from the water pouring off the front and dripping down the edges of the triangular front. Also, your forearm and hand tends to get wet as well, as although the shoulder parts are huge, your arm of course moves about a bit. And you must have a good waterproof hat - mine is waxed cotton, so it's fine most of the time, but not stormproof by any means. Additionally, the neck seal I found uncomfortable, as it must overlap enough to seal tight as a tent, but open enough for your neck. This could be fixed, I imagine, but mine wasn't that nice.
For these reasons I never use it any more. It might be good if you were alone and used it as a poncho in showers and as a cover for your kit - or as I hoped to use it, to cover your head if you use a bivi bag, so you aren't cooped up inside them and you can breathe. And as I say I never used it with others, so the group tents may have great potential for all I know. To me, though, it seems a great piece of bog standard early military kit, because it was extremely versatile, small, and pretty light. But like many military things like that, comfort is compromised, so I personally will stick to a tarp or a Fjellduken

Chris

 

[Danceswithhelicopters]

Heres another website with a pattern to copy as well as various photos of them in use.
Zeltbahns

 

[Moonraker]

I made one about 18 months ago, following another thread we had on here about them. Mine was of tough groundsheet plastic fabric, so not breathable at all, but since I didn't know anyone else with one I couldn't have made an enclosed tent so it didn't matter.
Simon's exactly right: they are useless on their own as tents. Mine, with the aid of a line and a tree would have sheltered your head and shoulders nicely, with some space for a small amount of kit, but no more.
However, the main reason I made it, as of course I realised this beforehand, was for use as a poncho. They are good for this, as your arms and legs are left very free, and they're easily flexible enough to fit a backpack underneath, so no worries about your bag getting wet. However, the fixings aren't ideal and can't be made so easily, and the fact that your legs are not covered means that they get wet - particularly, I found, from the water pouring off the front and dripping down the edges of the triangular front. Also, your forearm and hand tends to get wet as well, as although the shoulder parts are huge, your arm of course moves about a bit. And you must have a good waterproof hat - mine is waxed cotton, so it's fine most of the time, but not stormproof by any means. Additionally, the neck seal I found uncomfortable, as it must overlap enough to seal tight as a tent, but open enough for your neck. This could be fixed, I imagine, but mine wasn't that nice.
For these reasons I never use it any more. It might be good if you were alone and used it as a poncho in showers and as a cover for your kit - or as I hoped to use it, to cover your head if you use a bivi bag, so you aren't cooped up inside them and you can breathe. And as I say I never used it with others, so the group tents may have great potential for all I know. To me, though, it seems a great piece of bog standard early military kit, because it was extremely versatile, small, and pretty light. But like many military things like that, comfort is compromised, so I personally will stick to a tarp or a Fjellduken

Chris

Load of good info there Chris. I was going to mention the Fjellduken but guessed it wasn't quite the same type of set up, but offers a lot of the versatility in a well made bit of kit (at a price of course). I read somewhere you could buy an extra side protection piece to use it as a tent/ wind shelter?

 

[Tor helge]

Just a little remark on the use of the Zeltbahn in the norwegian army.
The norwegian army issue is not triangular but diamond shaped and a little bigger.
I have both the zeltbahn and the norwegian model. Don`t use either of them becauce they are too heavy (the nor. army issue is 1.5 kg).
Below is a pic of the norwegian model set up for one person use. We never used it like this in the army. As Torjus said we used ready made tents carried on our rucks.

Tor

 

[bothyman]

Just a little remark on the use of the Zeltbahn in the norwegian army.
The norwegian army issue is not triangular but diamond shaped and a little bigger.

The ones I have are diamond shaped so they must be the same ones you mention .
But the instructions look like they are in german, but luckily there are diagrams too.

MickT

 

[Big Steve]

Rather than the triangular zeltbahn design, why not consider the Russian rectangular 'Plasch-Palatka' design? Like the zeltbahn, this was WW2 issue kit for the Soviet forces of The Great Patriotic War. I reckon it is a better design than a zeltbahn as it is more flexible. The zeltbahn really relies on the presence of other soldiers with their zeltbahnen to be able to construct usable shelters. Not so the plash palatka. With a hood arrangment in one corner and armholes, it was multi-functional: it could be easily be converted for use as a basha, a poncho and waterproof cape. You may have seen it worn by Jude Law and other Russian snipers in the film 'Enemy at the Gates', set in the WW2 Battle of Stalingrad. It is often seen adorning Russian forces in wartime footage on Discovery channel's 'doccies'.

For a couple of modern images, check out:

http://www.tridentmilitary.com/New-Photos14/shelter-half-2b.jpg
http://www.tridentmilitary.com/New-Photos14/shelter-half-1b.jpg

These images don't really do it justice though. I know that Combat & Survival magazine wrote a good review of this item of Soviet kit a few years ago which, sadly, I have since binned. It even gave measurements, as well as a detailed description, which could be used to reconstruct one, perhaps using modern more lightweight fabrics than the original canvas. How about an updated Plash-Palatka made in ripstop nylon or even in Goretex?

I wonder if anyone still has this C&S article and who could provide me with a photocopy of it , so I can try making a modernised copy myself? Does anyone actually use a Plash-Palatka in their outdoor pursuits? If so, what do they think?

 

[arctic hobo]

Load of good info there Chris. I was going to mention the Fjellduken but guessed it wasn't quite the same type of set up, but offers a lot of the versatility in a well made bit of kit (at a price of course). I read somewhere you could buy an extra side protection piece to use it as a tent/ wind shelter?

Yes, the most expensive Fjellduken, the m-ultimate, has a tent conversion kit, which has poles and two end pieces, so you have a small two person or one person tent. However the whole setup is quite weighty then, and the conversion kit is a rather steep 240 quid, so personally if I owned an m-ultimate I'd make the ends myself and use saplings or similar for the poles. Part of the reason for the weight is the insulation, as it has either 80g/m2 or 200g/m2 of insulation, which often means no sleeping bag is necessary.
Pics of the setup are at the bottom of this page: https://jerven.secure.flexiweb.no/page/4434/
It also has the advantage of attaching to the igloo system, which seems to be a brilliant expedition basecamp if you were going somewhere like Central Asia where you'd need a decent semi-permanent camp. But you'd really need to be in the money for the whole setup there.
https://jerven.secure.flexiweb.no/accounts/433372/Image/Produktbilder/cache/95109_226_170.jpg

 

[Shepard]

I think the Swedish Military used triangular cotton tent pieces. "Zeltbahn" copies.I bought 4 of them over 10 years ago. Regrettfully after seeing this thread i think they went in the trash bin after spring cleaning. Maybe some surplus sites have them stored?

I`ve got the old Jerven tent.

http://www.westhood.no/utp%E5tur/JervenFjellduk/img/telt1.jpg

 

[Toddy]

Somewhere, I have an old British army poncho. It's a good bit of kit but it is *noisy*. Ventile isn't, but it is heavy and more so when wet.
We can't be the only folks out there looking for a lightweight, silent, breathable waterproof fabric, can we??
If we could sort out the fabric, it surely can't be beyond mortal wit to devise a suitable pattern for a poncho/ one man shelter/ segment for a group tent.

Cheers,
Toddy

 

[Shepard]

My humble vote goes for ripstop poly/cotton mix. Using Greenland wax/Nikwax it should be water repellent while being silent, inexpensive and more fire resistant than "tex`" fabrics.

 

[Toddy]

Now that's a good idea. Casual wear jackets are made of a peachskin version of this stuff. I hadn't hought of nikwaxing it It's lightweight, strong, quiet in use and easily sewn.
Cheers,
Toddy

 

[Snufkin]

I found a cheaper repro version here. Third Reich field equipment section, second page. They have the pegs and poles on the next page.
Good idea about the proofed polycotton ripstop version.

 

[Shepard]

Here`s the Swedish version http://www.bbfab.se/div/p30.htm Around 5£?

 

[sam_acw]

It suddenly struck me this can be a little like re-inventing the wheel at times.
The Italian version (early war)


What is it they say? "the more things change the more they stay the same"
I guess soldiers have always wanted something that stops them getting too cold or wet that they could sleep under.

 

[sandsnakes]

I have a friend who spent the first six months of his 16th year running away from the Russians. As he said 'there i was 16 years old hoping for a sh~g and what did I get? I got f*"#*d by Hitler and the Russians!

He said they were awful, you threw the first two away thinking that they were faulty, leaked like pig around your neck and sent the water straight down your spine, which did keep you awake so you could run faster!

So the general consensus of those who have used them in the original form was nice idea, but awful in reality. Maybe in ripstop nylon it would work better,?

Hans has declined to offer his sevices for field trials! The comment was short, sharp and offensive... touchy old bugger!

Sandsnakes

 

[Greywolf]

It suddenly struck me this can be a little like re-inventing the wheel at times.
The Italian version (early war)


What is it they say? "the more things change the more they stay the same"
I guess soldiers have always wanted something that stops them getting too cold or wet that they could sleep under.

Thanks for that link, I used to have it in favourites but lost it in a 'puter crash.

A cloak is a handy thing, warm and water shedding (if the right materials are used)

Right, Im off to butcher my old army blankets

Greywolf

 

[sam_acw]

Please show us all how you get on greywolf. It is one of those projects I mean to get around to but somehow never have

 

[Greywolf]

Please show us all how you get on greywolf. It is one of those projects I mean to get around to but somehow never have

Will do, I have made a couple before so I'm not a cloak virgin

I will take some pictures and post them so you can see how it goes


Greywolf

p.s. back to the original topic

 

[Caboose117]

I like saying Zeltbahn ZELTBAHN!!!