A different shelter design the "Zeltbahn"!

[spamel]

Woo hoo!! I bought a complete zeltbahn set today, minor use only, for €8 or something!!!! It's been put up already on the way back from Raeer, the shop in Hildesheim where I bought it. Each tent comes with a bag that turns into a hood and buttons onto the shelter when it is used as a cape, and they both come with the accessory bag with four pegs and pins, and a bit of string to use as a guy line.

I tried it on as a cape and I felt like that guy from enemy at the gates!! It completely covers me up down to my ankles, and it has holes that button closed to poke your arms through!! The hood is massive, as you can imagine it is designed to be worn over a helmet, and when we put the shelter up and got inside my girls said it was really warm inside and it was. The shelter is reversible from the normal current german pattern camo to an olive green side, but the edges show the camo pattern. The string is crap and white, but I have an abundance of good green cordage so will replace it at my leisure.

I took note of the comments made on this site about use in the winte, so this will be a two or three season use only, I'm not faffing with a frozen tarp in the winter! I'm really looking forward to my first night under actual canvas since I went through training, if you don't count the massive army tents. The only downside I see is until my kids get a bit bigger, I'm carrying the whole shelter!!

 

[nobby]

Like the British Army groundsheet/cape of the 50's/60's this kit will probably do none of its jobs properly.

 

[spamel]

I will probably only use it for a good weather tent and as a camo cape when I go shooting, it saves me walking around in camo with a rifle on the way to shoot, so looking like rambo!

Once I've used it properly, I'll post my findings, good or bad, but for €8 it's not gonna break the bank!

 

[Oblio13]

Resurrecting an ancient thread because I like Zeltbahnen! Centuries ago, armies discovered that soldiers performed better if they slept under shelter, and began issuing individual tents to be carried on the march. Inevitably, soldiers began wrapping their tents around them if it rained as they walked. Commanders took notice, and modifications were made so that the tents would be more useful as cloaks.

I think the Germans invented the triangular shelter-quarter, and a lot of countries copied it. I have German, French, Swiss and Swedish versions.

Also have Hungarian and Polish shelter-halves (not quarters).

All of the above can also be worn as rain gear.

My favorite, for both tent and rain gear, is the Polish. Here are two of them buttoned together. I stayed in this for a week during deer season:

One nice day I'll pitch all of mine and take pics for comparison.

 

[Corso]

I like the idea but not without some sort of tent stove

 

[Ogri the trog]

I did a bit of a capability study on the Zeltbahn poncho/shelters and I quite like the idea as an adaptable piece of kit - but I have been put off by the prices on Ebay currently.

I plan to do some modifications to an old gazebo shelter that I have, to make it into something similar to a Zelt' - ie wear-able as a poncho and pitch-able as a shelter, but it will almost certainly be bigger than a Zelt.

I have one of the Palatka shelters, but being over 6' tall it doesn't lend itself to accommodating my body unless I curl up around the central pole. I have heard of folks adding material to the bottom edge of the poncho to increase its coverage - but I don't know if this makes the resulting shelter big enough or if it adversely affects its performance as a poncho.

I did briefly look at the US Ecotat system but again the prices mean that it will remain firmly on the "When I win the lottery" list.

My guess is that whatever I come up with will be a hotch-potch of a number of different ideas - constantly in a state of flux as modifications and additions are made until I get fed up and move on to something else.

It is good to see other peoples ideas though, as you never know when an idea will sprout from a photo or comment that leads you down an avenue unexplored.

ATB

Ogri the trog

 

[Oblio13]

I like the idea but not without some sort of tent stove

A tent stove with its clearance requirements and a small woodpile takes up as much room as another person. And these are tiny tents. It would also make it unbearably hot. I can cook myself right out of much larger tents with my tent stoves. I'm comfortable in these with nothing but body heat and a candle lantern.

 

[dp0001]

I'll add the little bit of experience I've had. I've been playing out in the garden and have camped at car shows in both the Polish Laavu style tent and an E. German rain pattern (Strichtarn) zeltbahn/zeltplan. Both of these double as ponchos in a similar manner but are different shapes. I don't claim either as experience in harsh conditions just personal observations from mucking about.

The Laavu:

[/IMG]
Advantages: can give you full enclosure with two ponchos. You don't need any guylines, it's simpler to put up with cold hands or in the rain. I leave my two ponchos permanently buttoned on one side to save time. I don't use them as rain coats but you could use the two as one coat by doubling over and leaving buttoned on one side.
Lighter weight canvas. light aluminium poles and aluminium sharpened pegs

You can angle the central pole quite a bit so you have more space to one side of the tent.

Disadvantages: There's only one way to make the shelter, you can't (as far as I can tell) make a single shelter of any sort with one Polish poncho. You also can't make a bigger tent with 3 or 4 ponchos.
Cramped for two and awkward for one, you would, even if just one person, need to curl around the pole to avoid head and feett touching the canvas when sleeping.

E. German zeltplan

[/IMG]

Advantages:

You can shelter under one piece but it's a bit short. I'm 5' 10" so not tall by any means. In the picture, I've used my coat at the end of the tent to enclose one end & keep my feet dry - in summer rain in the garden. I wouldn't be so keen to do this in winter.

So one E. German poncho would beat one polish poncho but two Polish ponchos beat two E. German ones.

Being a square, with buttons and button holes on each edge you can join as many as you have together to make something.

Note: W. German army and others had a more complex diamond shape so two of them, would make up the two sides of an A frame tent that is enclosed. Ie they are squares with 'doors' at the end.

Disadvantages
Not properly enclosed until you use 4 ponchos or cut one in half.
More involved to set up needing guylines to pull the poles into shape.
Heavier canvas (maybe that's an advantage as tougher) heavier wood and steel poles

Both: buttons are difficult to fit to button hole when the canvas is wet or your hands are cold (or both!) Both tents seem to have button hole made a fraction too small for the buttons. The E. German aluminium disc buttons are particularly sharp and nasty. Also quite bright and out of place on a camouflaged item. Sticking hands in snow for just 60 seconds made buttoning massively more difficult. I don't have a clever answer to that though, all fastenings would become difficult - toggles maybe.

I can see why buttons would be used, quieter and mud proof, unlike zips and pop studs that can be jammed by grit and mud. Slows assembly down though.

Tent proofing failed on the Laavu in the snow. Water didn't drip through but inside became wet. I think it's something to do with cold snow melting on then canvas because of cooking heating the inside. I don't attribute this to one canvas over the other.

My 1970s Argos nylon tent has an outer fly, sewn in groundsheet, is not particularly clever or hi tech but is bigger, lighter & more sheltered than a military canvas thing. It's a bit more fiddly, slower to assemble & is bright orange but would work better as a tent so long as it didn't get squaddie abuse or fire damage.

 

[Bucephalas]

Post edited.

 

[Oblio13]

... you can't (as far as I can tell) make a single shelter of any sort with one Polish poncho.

... need to curl around the pole to avoid head and feett touching the canvas when sleeping.

It's okay to touch the canvas, it's not like some older types that will drip if touched.

... Tent proofing failed on the Laavu in the snow. Water didn't drip through but inside became wet....

That's normal. The canvas eventually becomes saturated, but the fibers swell and seal it. Completely waterproof canvas is like plastic, with condensation problems, especially in a small, unheated shelter.

 

[Miyagi]

Admittedly, the palatka is a bit cramped for one sleeping adult, nigh on impossible for two.

But bear in mind, when laagered up (also known as resting in a harbour area) for the night, one of the pair will be on guard duty while the other cooks, sleeps, does personal admin. These roles were probably rotated frequently through the night.

Just a thought...


Liam