A different shelter design the "Zeltbahn"!

[RAPPLEBY2000]

This is an idea that stems from 2WW germany a shelter design that has prehaps been ignored for over 60 years? prehaps because of the Nazi link prehaps because of the design, i don't know, but worth a look!

why?
1) The're canvas so hard wearing and safer around fires!
2) The're designed to be worn as a weather proof coat too!
3) The're they can be joined(see links) in amazing ways to house large numbers!
4) the camo is pretty cool too!


The Zeltbahn

another Zeltbahn page

a page more about the wearing of a Zeltbahn

check out the range of camo designs on this link!
and yes somewhere to buy them!

woah , yup it's expensive but the reason for the extravagant price is they're making perfect reproductions for 2WW re-enactment groups and films etc, i don't have the money but they look pretty nice and would be of great use on camp.


see what you think!

 

[torjusg]

The Norwegian army use them still. Every soldier has one piece in his backpack. I have bad memories from this nasty piece of equipment.

These tents are cold in winter and a pain to pack when they are wet and frozen (which they generally are). They never seem to get properly warm.

The coldest occation we used them was in -30C. A true nightmare that was.

Torjus Gaaren

 

[RAPPLEBY2000]

aww. don't be like that!....

I've used canvas too i guess it depend on when and where they're used, sorry to hear you had a bad time!

 

[beachlover]

I saw those on a Norwegian site before and thought they would be a good idea too, but that said. you sure as hell can't beat a first hand user review

 

[Toddy]

A long while ago someone posted links to a DIY of something very similar. It was a poncho that was made from a diamond shaped piece of rubberised cotton (two triangles) and they were buttoned together with rubber buttons. We talked at the time about making them from ventile or waxed cotton and using studs.
Anybody got any ideas what the thread was called?

Cheers,
Toddy

 

[RAPPLEBY2000]

sounds promising, a friend of mine is considering the same with a view to selling!

 

[CLEM]

Not a big camo wearer but those are cool looking patterns,those Germans are clever buggers!

 

[Snufkin]

I like the idea of a ventile version.

 

[beachlover]

I like the idea of a ventile version.

Sorry, but how does ventile make it warmer in winter and easier to pack when wet, or is no-one listening to the one guy who has used it for real?

 

[Toddy]

It doesn't make it warmer in Winter, but in our damp soggy climate it helps that the waterproof stuff is breathable, and rubberized or plasticized fabric is *always* a pain to pack. Thus the improvement of using ventile.

Cheers,
Toddy

 

[sam_acw]

The US shelter half is similar in concept but rectangular. They were around in the 1840s I think.
The trouble with them was that they were way too short for 1 person and way too short in a tent form coming out at about 5'8" long. Only cold and wet from mid calf

 

[beachlover]

It doesn't make it warmer in Winter, but in our damp soggy climate it helps that the waterproof stuff is breathable, and rubberized or plasticized fabric is *always* a pain to pack. Thus the improvement of using ventile.

Cheers,
Toddy

Fair do's and I have to say I liked the Lego-like idea of patching them together, but even then it seemed to me that the experience of someone who had used them for real was being minimised. The benefits of Ventile in terms of packability when wet I can see, but what about damp, mould and expense. Like I said, Iiked the notion when i saw it, but remain unconvinced after the "review" of a real life user.

 

[Toddy]

I think it'd have to be dealt with like a damp cagoule...you might stuff it into your sack until you've gotten to where you're going, but you'd take it out to dry, etc when you stop.
The personal review, and it's very negative feedback, does give pause for thought though.


Cheers,
Toddy

 

[RAPPLEBY2000]

no one said it had to be canvas!
it's just the way it was designed!

my personal experiences of canvas are fairly good i used to use canvas tents of various sorts in scouts and never had problems, i had a US army shelter half(x2) it was my main tent from 1989 - 2000 in torrential rain (again no problems) , i used a canvas german poncho(circa cold war) and used it as a coat and shelter a few times again no problems.

people are readily buying canvas tarps to cover the campsite etc so what's the problem with a multi functional triangle one?

if people are interested i have a friend that is as i say considering production of a canvas version i think he may also consider modern fabrics also!
like ripstop nylon, sil-nylon for the ultra light chaps!

if anyone is interested i shall pass on the info to him!

 

[torjusg]

I was harsh in my first post, and rightfully so I would say, but to be fair there are some clear advantages to this design as well.

1. Portability, lightweight (at least before it gets wet).
2. Versatility, it can be used for a shelter with almost any number of people.

On the minus side (again):
1. Assemblage is slow (without training). We usually had one person carrying the whole thing ready assembled on his backpack.
2. It gets wet, but I assume it can be waterproofed.
3. When wet, insulative qualities are very poor.
4. It takes a lot of practise (or time to assemble, something you never have in the army) to make this type of tent comfortable, especially in the winter.

Note: The conditions we used it under in the army was often quite extreme and we had to have a "primus" (English name please? ) going inside all the time. The fumes were awful and probably not very healthy.

Conclusion: The minus sides of this piece of equipment can probably all be remedied, but it is probably too much work for it to be worthwhile. Bear in mind that we used this design in a half a year (after that we got better tents, thank god). We spent somewhere between 30-50 nights in it, putting it up in a new location every day on average. In addition we had a few whole days training before using it for the first time.

Either we were exeptionally stupid or this design is best for people who plans to do a lot of outdoorsliving with a trained group.

Torjus Gaaren

 

[Moonraker]

The main issue I can see is that they were designed mainly for use by a group of people, as torjusg says, thus for individual use (most of use I am guessing) the triangular shape is not very versatile, especially when compared to a rectangular tarp. You can get tarps which have a slit (and poppers) to convert it to wear which would be more practical and versatile for bushcraft use. Perhaps something like this which would be very light and small to pack:

Sil Poncho

Tor helge made similar points as torjusg in this post about his experience with them (he mentions the Norwegian canvas version weighs 15kg dry!):

Norwegian poncho/shelter thread

 

[bothyman]

I have a big pile of the stuff it connects the same way but they are diamond shape and they have diagrams on one side to show differerent ways of fitting them together you can make anything from a 2 to a 16 man tent with them .
I did have a picture of a Lavvu I made out of some of them in the picture gallery but it seems to have disappeared.

MickT

 

[Surrey Yeoman]

Note: The conditions we used it under in the army was often quite extreme and we had to have a "primus" (English name please? ) going inside all the time. The fumes were awful and probably not very healthy.

"Primus" in English = "Primus." A brand of paraffin stove / heater.

Dave

 

[Danceswithhelicopters]

No connection to this site commercially or politically .. .but it has a selction of various Zeltbahns both reproduction and original.

 

[RAPPLEBY2000]

Ok, so things people

don't like:
canvas(in wet or cold wet wether).
Buttons because they are arkward to use.
large group design more than one person must carry a section.

how about if the design used poppers was adustable,
and was made from man made materials?
with a reasonable price, not those shown on the Zeltbahn page!

what do you guy's think?