A ban on online knife sales...

[phaserrifle]

When I recently bought a Clipper online, I was asked to tick a declaration thing to confirm I was over 18... all very standard I thought... 15 mins later, I got a phonecall from a very pleasant young lady asking for proof of my age. I asked her how I could prove it. She said I should scan my passport and e-mail it to them! Not being terribly technological, I explained that this wasn't going to happen, and she said they could not send it out with out proof.

Long story short, I ended up taking a picture of my drivers lisence on my phone, and texting it to her private number.

Didn't hold me up for more than 10 mins realistically, and my knife arrived in 2 days.

Pretty damned good all told...

isn't that how hennie do things?
I've never had a problem, as I've purchased through mum and dad (otherwise I wouldn't be able to buy at all)
either way, even if we ban selling knives online, how is that going to stop kids carrying knives? most of the knives used in crime (even if we ignore domestic crime, where the figures make perfect sense) are kitchen knives. which are available to most kids via a quick trip downstairs to the family kitchen.

 

[Melonfish]

Phaserrifle is right, its time we banned kitchens!

 

[Ex Member - Sidney Bounty]

it sure would make life harder for knife makers in the UK wonder if they can survive if the ban goes through....

 

[Draven]

I wonder if there will be a workaround - ie, would one be able to buy knife KITS?

Picture it; young teenager, hoody and tracksuit, swearing profusely as he struggles to file away at a Reindeer antler handle so he can go out and knife someone

 

[phaserrifle]

Phaserrifle is right, its time we banned kitchens!

NOOOOOOOOOOOO!
don't give them ideas.

I'm thinking we should ban stabbing people. oh, we have allready, and people are still doing it.
hmmmmm, maybe we could try getting the current bans to work then, rather than making more bans for the criminals to ignore, and to make more people who have no criminal intention either A) unhappy as they can't get what they need to do thier job/enjoy their chosen hobby or B) forced to perform a technicaly illegal act to do their job/enjoy thier chosen legal hobby (eg a complete ban on knives would stop chefs and butchers in their tracks)

 

[wanderingblade]

Hmmmmm, maybe we could try getting the current bans to work then, rather than making more bans for the criminals to ignore, and to make more people who have no criminal intention either A) unhappy as they can't get what they need to do thier job/enjoy their chosen hobby or B) forced to perform a technicaly illegal act to do their job/enjoy thier chosen legal hobby (eg a complete ban on knives would stop chefs and butchers in their tracks)

If you were to implement plans to tackle these issues, consider this:

How long will it take?
How much do you think it would cost?
How much positive media coverage would it attract?

Now consider a ban:

How long will it take?
How much will it cost?
How much positive media coverage will it attract?

From an MP's point of view, which one is the obvious answer?

 

[Mikey P]

From an MP's point of view, which one is the obvious answer?

Whichever one gets them the biggest expenses claim!

Ha ha, no, not really..they're all wonderful honest people. No, really, they are.

 

[Northsky]

A few years back I used to play Airsoft Skirmishing, Yeah alright you can stop laughing now, thing is Airsoft guns where to be outlawed under if I remeber rightly the Violent Crimes Bill, Now the 'Industry' and players got themselves organised to fight what looked like lost cause and won and got Airsoft guns exempt. I now airsoft is a bit norrower than sale/use of knives but it go's to show what can be done.

 

[K.NYPH]

(Down with the government,down with the self righteous, lying two faced politicians .I want a Government of Honest men and women that put the word GREAT back into this Country as I'm fed up of this namby pamby state.)*
Sorry don't mean to get political.
* Sorry, these are my views not the views of BCUK

 

[FGYT]

So what is the accepted Proof the bulk ofthe shops who passed used ??

and how does an individual do it in the classifieds etc that will stand up in court when the scrots finds a work around ??

checking age on here has been mentioned but you can lie and a lot of people dont display it

do you need to be 18 to have a paypall account if so you probably dont to access your parents

is asking for a statment that they are 18 enough ?? even if they lie


ATB

Duncan

 

[C_Claycomb]

Make it the parents' problem...make it illegal for them to own a credit card till over 18, make it illegal for them to surf the internet on an "uncontrolled" computer. That will prevent LOADS of possible crimes from happening.

Letter to MP time :bluThinki

 

[phaserrifle]

If you were to implement plans to tackle these issues, consider this:

How long will it take?
How much do you think it would cost?
How much positive media coverage would it attract?

Now consider a ban:

How long will it take?
How much will it cost?
How much positive media coverage will it attract?

From an MP's point of view, which one is the obvious answer?

which is precisely the problem.
its like putting a plaster on arterial bleeding, it might make you feel a bit better, but it's not going to help much.
eventualy someone will spot that banning anything that can be used as a weapon will lead to the only logical possiblity (once we have banned scaffolding poles, bricks, torches, anything metal, snooker balls ect ect): ban people. then there's no-one to use the weapons!

A few years back I used to play Airsoft Skirmishing, Yeah alright you can stop laughing now, thing is Airsoft guns where to be outlawed under if I remeber rightly the Violent Crimes Bill, Now the 'Industry' and players got themselves organised to fight what looked like lost cause and won and got Airsoft guns exempt. I now airsoft is a bit norrower than sale/use of knives but it go's to show what can be done.

"Violent Crimes Reduction Act" (VCRA for short)

 

[K.NYPH]

Great to see your pulse racing Chris

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

I vote for the BUNNY

 

[wanderingblade]

which is precisely the problem.
its like putting a plaster on arterial bleeding, it might make you feel a bit better, but it's not going to help much.

Exactly.

Gang culture?
Youth crime?
Stabbings and deaths in the streets?
Unprecedented violence committed by younger and younger people?

Sound familliar?

It should do - it's why flick knives were banned 50 years ago!!!
Did that ban solve the problem?

Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

 

[K.NYPH]

Totally agree with you wanderingblade,same can be said for the new gun laws ,since they came into force gun crime has gone up.
I vote ban the government!!!


(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

I vote for the BUNNY
__________________

 

[Mikey P]

So what is the accepted Proof the bulk ofthe shops who passed used ??

and how does an individual do it in the classifieds etc that will stand up in court when the scrots finds a work around ??

checking age on here has been mentioned but you can lie and a lot of people dont display it

do you need to be 18 to have a paypall account if so you probably dont to access your parents

is asking for a statment that they are 18 enough ?? even if they lie


ATB

Duncan

I think you have to have a standard credit card for a Paypal account. I'd be quite disappointed if it was available to under 18s as it blows my ID check out of the water.

 

[phaserrifle]

Exactly.
It should do - it's why flick knives were banned 50 years ago!!!
Did that ban solve the problem?

exactly. and yet flick knives* are still available, if you know which shop to visit (an aquaintance of mine aquired one in a shop in portsmouth. fortuenately he isn't the kind of person who's going to use it, he just wanted a pocket lock knife for scouts, and thought it was cool)

as an aside, I believe they where banned due to their use by a gang known as the "teddy boys". which strikes me as one of the worst gang names in the history of mankind. not exactly likely to strike fear into the hearts of your opponents is it?

* by flick knives I mean what the US would refer to as "switchblades" knives which contain a spring which opens the blade when a button or simmilar is pressed.

Totally agree with you wanderingblade,same can be said for the new gun laws ,since they came into force gun crime has gone up.
I vote ban the government!!!

part of this (less so with firearms) is the "wrong place, wrong time" effect.
people who where on the right side of the law, suddenly find they arn't anymore, usualy by being arrested. more common with knives as they are an every day tool, and so people are less likely to realise that there are laws pertaining to them. (eg few people look on a stanley knife as a knife, but it is, and most lock.....)

 

[andybysea]

Without going political,doesnt this seem a bit like ''see if you had a id card you wouldnt have this problem'', eg some companies asking for passport scan(what if you dont have one) some asking for driving license scan(what if you cant drive) ''i know a solution if we all had a id card this would not be an issue'' you could just use that and prove who you are, i may be reading to much into this, but making more and more things harder to get,and needing more proof to do so leads me on a certain road of thought.

 

[gregorach]

I think you have to have a standard credit card for a Paypal account. I'd be quite disappointed if it was available to under 18s as it blows my ID check out of the water.

I have a PayPal account, and I only have a debit card. I'm pretty sure you can get a debit card under 18.

Still, many sites on the internet seem to get away with "You must be over 18 to enter this site YES | NO"... Or so I've been led to believe, anyway.

 

[phaserrifle]

I have a PayPal account, and I only have a debit card. I'm pretty sure you can get a debit card under 18.

you can get a debit card from the age of 11. at least that's when nat west's "adapt" account starts, and that's card can be used as a debit card (which I have found very handy)

Without going political,doesnt this seem a bit like ''see if you had a id card you wouldnt have this problem'', eg some companies asking for passport scan(what if you dont have one) some asking for driving license scan(what if you cant drive) ''i know a solution if we all had a id card this would not be an issue'' you could just use that and prove who you are, i may be reading to much into this, but making more and more things harder to get,and needing more proof to do so leads me on a certain road of thought.

the problem is that that route is a political minefield (as we all know). the vast majority of people have either a passport or a driving licence. and even that's not a complete cure.
what if young jonny uses his dad's credit card, and his dads driving licence/passport/national ID card?
govt then decides that knives are still available to under 18's over the net, bans sale.
its a problem of culture: the fear of knives and youths, lack of respect between age groups and a lack of responsible behaviour by the yob element.

add to that the fact that the yob element appear quite large (a fair few adolecent muppets act like the "wellard ganstas" right up untill it comes to anything actualy risky, making the "gang culture" bigger despite the muppets not actualy being lawbreakers) and the fear increases.