750,000 deer to be culled - thanks bunny huggers!

[British Red]

I agree BT, and I'm sure with lots of legal counsel, a farmer could find a way of giving away some venison. But why should he have to bother? Its just over legislation. Its not about politics - its just about "oh stop it". They introduce more game laws and there are reports of urban fox problems, deer over population and more. If they just left well alone, we wouldn't have these problems.

I just want the government to repeal half the laws in the country and stop busybodying and micro managing. Deer hunting caused almost no health issues - domestic pets cause far more. Banning domestic pets make more sense from a health perspective. But of course it isn't about health.

 

[stuey]

All this is true - but its a major pain for them. I have never lived on one these massive "estates" that Mary thinks are prevalent doen here. But there are plenty of places with a famlily pheasant shoot or take more than one or two deer a year. Theya ren't in the business of deer management - any more than they are of rabbit management or fox management. They just live on a mixed farm and years back would shoot a few deer to control them, sell a couple, keep a couple, give a couple away. Now they fear all these new regs and daren't do so without having a lawyer go over it all - which is simply not worth it on small farms. Sad - but true.

We just need less regulation and to let farmers maange their farms. If they need to sell the venison as "farm harvested - not e-coli tested" well so be it. We are grown ups - I bet most people here would be happy to take a butchered deer carcas under those rules for less than the price of beef!

I do agree on the hunting rights thing BTW - if they maange the population, fine, if they don't shoot it, they should lose it.

My interpretation of the regs (as a Trained Hunter as termed by the regs) leads me to believe that the farmer in the above scenario could quite legitimately shoot and pass on venison in-fur either as a gift or for payment under the Primary Producer Exemption and the fact he is not supplying an AGHE. It is very sad that your personal experience you have described is clearly very different. It makes a mockery of the regs.

With regard to the shoot it or lose it factor it may just happen...... eventually and what a fight there will be. I guess if it was me with the 35,000 acres I might feel a bit differently but for the fact I know I am effectively managing the population on my 185 acres

 

[demographic]

Putting big groups of people into stereotyped silos like "townies" causes more issues than it solves.

That^
Plus a lot of the people who work in the countryside live in towns.

 

[Elen Sentier]

Oh lordy, lordy, you guys have put up a wallop of stuff here, all of which is useful to my understanding of current regs and social mores. I nearly put this up meself this afternoon, when I heard it first, but was worried about politics.

My take is that we should be eating this gorgeous meat and that we should be doing the job of the wolves in keeping the herds healthy and everything in balance. I've anarchy in my genes as well as in my upbringing so regulations are pretty well anathema to me! When I was a computer boffin I always ran with the maxim "if all else fails, read the manual"! I was also brought up in a wee village on the edge of Exmoor where the butcher killed the local farm meat still (it was well before the Ark!) and farmers worked for a "living" not for a "business". There were lots of rough shoots, my dad went on them, and they were for the pot not "sport". I have been out with lots of hunting packs too and found them disgusting as well as producing inedible meat.

I've been watching the deer (and the habitat) hereabouts going downhill for many years, because they're not culled as they used to be. They are still culled round here but not nearly enough – I eat some of the results.

I also agree that many country folk are incredibly iggerrant of animal/habitat management. Many of the farm workers arrive with degrees (!!!) and damn all experience. They can write business plans but have no idea where or what a fetlock is! Or what a ruminant is and why it needs to eat pretty well 24/7, or what cudding is - this is seriously terrifying. Many of the farmers' wives around here eat nothing but packaged meals from the supermarkets and have no idea of cooking. All of this does not auger well for good deer management.

There are good folk about who know which way is up and, as the farmer's markets are doing well, hopefully their number is growing. Eating venison is so good for you. Eating hand-processed venison (or local pork, beef, lamb burgers, etc) sausages is good too - you don't need to have all the crap food factories put into the rubbish you get in supermarkets.

I hope the regular culling will work out but, like many of you, I'm not holding my breath. I've begun some posts elsewhere in an effort to educate bunny huggers out if their green-washed idiocy - again not holding breath but there are some signs amongst people I'm in touch with. Caring for deer is very important to me, and eating them is part of that.

 

[stuey]

Hi Elen,

The bunny huggers will soon begin to change their minds when they see first hand the rapid spread of disease and malnutrition if the population is allowed to increase unchecked.

This issue has been ticking for a good while now but no single organisation has managed to make nay break through in addressing it although the Deer Initiative have been making moves in the right direction.

 

[mountainm]

Repeating myself a little here but phrases like townies and bunny huggers help no one and only serve to antagonise and drive divisions between groups who may all have valid opinions but are failing to listen to each other due to the prejudice that such phrases engender.

Come on guys and gals. If you can't have a debate or make a decent argument without using sweeping stereotypes then it isn't an argument worth making.

So if the forelock tugging bumpkins, the landed gentry and the Hooray Henry's will all stop pointing fingers at the bunny huggers, the townies and the crusties, and the latter would stop to listen and learn about the reasons behind the traditions - then, and only then we may just all be able to sit around the table and begin to understand each others points of view.

 

[Elen Sentier]

That's been a prob for a while Stuey, the deer are sick but the dyed-in-the-wool BH only sees what they wish to see, whether towny or country . I'm hoping ...

 

[British Red]

Repeating myself a little here but phrases like townies and bunny huggers help no one and only serve to antagonise and drive divisions between groups who may all have valid opinions but are failing to listen to each other due to the prejudice that such phrases engender.

Come on guys and gals. If you can't have a debate or make a decent argument without using sweeping stereotypes then it isn't an argument worth making.

So if the forelock tugging bumpkins, the landed gentry and the Hooray Henry's will all stop pointing fingers at the bunny huggers, the townies and the crusties, and the latter would stop to listen and learn about the reasons behind the traditions - then, and only then we may just all be able to sit around the table and begin to understand each others points of view.

You know what, I tire of the reverse being okay. I see on the forum its okay to crticise farmers, criticise gun owners, and use like "gun nuts", "country brigade". "landed gentry" even so called "get oorf my laand" humour. Lets see people jump on those posts - they are the ones that drive the divisions.

 

[mountainm]

You know what, I tire of the reverse being okay. I see on the forum its okay to crticise farmers, criticise gun owners, and use like "gun nuts", "country brigade". "landed gentry" even so called "get oorf my laand" humour. Lets see people jump on those posts - they are the ones that drive the divisions.

I'm jumping on both Red. "He said it first" is no argument.

 

[British Red]

But oddly, I have never seen you jump on those criticising farmers or landowners using sarcastic phrases....care to point me to some posts where you have?

 

[stuey]

So if the forelock tugging bumpkins, the landed gentry and the Hooray Henry's will all stop pointing fingers at the bunny huggers, the townies and the crusties, and the latter would stop to listen and learn about the reasons behind the traditions - then, and only then we may just all be able to sit around the table and begin to understand each others points of view.

Just to add another sweeping generalisation into the mix I have yet to meet a convincing majority of Animal Rights Activists (Bunny Huggers) who will even begin to listen to the facts that back up population control of deer, foxes, rabbits etc.
But that is clearly and solely my opinion based on personal experience.

 

[mountainm]

Just to add another sweeping generalisation into the mix I have yet to meet a convincing majority of Animal Rights Activists (Bunny Huggers) who will even begin to listen to the facts that back up population control of deer, foxes, rabbits etc.
But that is clearly and solely my opinion based on personal experience.

I don't doubt it, but I'm of the opinion that lowering oneself to the same tactics is not the correct way to solve a problem.

 

[mountainm]

But oddly, I have never seen you jump on those criticising farmers or landowners using sarcastic phrases....care to point me to some posts where you have?

I don't think I've been active in any threads that do, if I was, then I would.

 

[stuey]

I don't doubt it, but I'm of the opinion that lowering oneself to the same tactics is not the correct way to solve a problem.

I see bunny hugger as a turn of phrase just as they see bambi slayer or bunny murderer as a turn of phrase. I personally think the name calling is fairly equally matched from both sides but agree that name calling is no way to engage in a serious debate.

In my experience I am generally the one on the receiving end of the name calling being a "slayer and murderer of poor innocent, defenceless wildlife"

 

[British Red]

Well it seems to be the way on here....and in society in general at the moment.

I think countryside management is best left to those who actually have a clue about how it works. Ellen summed it up masterfully.

Silly ill informed people get to pass legislation, and voila - a population explosion that is a problem.That now needs more taxpayers money to solve. Deer were not a problem in this country for millenia till ignorant people passed ill informed laws. We have more deer here now than when they were totally protected as "the Kings deer", more than at the Norman Invasion, hell more than since the last Ice Age.

Why on earth do silly, ill informed people have to mess with that and cause problems?

 

[mountainm]

Why on earth do silly, ill informed people have to mess with that and cause problems?

To win votes, save money or gain money. They bend like grass in the wind.

 

[British Red]

Can't argue with that. It burns me up though - I have seen so many hard working people suffering as a result - and the wildlife too

 

[boatman]

Pure arrogance to grind on endlessly about the ignorance of townies. Go on, survey village dwellers and find out how many really have different opinions from town folk. Pop into your local and do a quick survey of opinions on deer culling if you can be heard above the towny music on the jukebox or avoid being thrown out as you interrupt the Oh SO country tradition of the quiz night.

I have no problem with deer culling and it has been pointed out that the meat can be used. Of course, as with dealing with a rabbit problem, the deer culler has no interest in actually solving the problem finally on his patch. I am rather grateful to legislation that tries to ensure that the meat I eat is wholesome.

And that dreadful cost of adhering to the regulations can be offset against tax etc.

 

[stuey]

Of course, as with dealing with a rabbit problem, the deer culler has no interest in actually solving the problem finally on his patch.

How do you mean?

 

[GordonM]

I empathize with you, British Red, deer management is near and dear to my heart. However, take my empathy with a grain of salt as I'll possibly be discounted in to the American hunting "gun nut" brigade.