3x3 tarp

[Quixoticgeek]

This is a Bushcraft forum though, right? Leather, wool blankets, canvas tarps and axes? A tarp weighing less than 800 grammes is nothing to carry for the sheer luxury of protection it offers. The superlight tarp weighs under 500 grammes, so not much of a weight saving?

You see I have to agree with Paul Kirtley on this one, there is Bushcraft, and then there is kit. Bushcraft is about knowledge and skills that allow you to take less.

The whole leather and Canvas and wool blankets is more about so called "Traditional camping". You can do bushcraft with a 200g uber light tarp, a 2kg Canvas tarp, or even no tarp. There is no formula, no uniform, no mandatory kit list.

And yes, DD tarps are too heavy.

J

 

[Floki]

Hi sorry to interrupt i'm just in the market for a 3x3 tarp and had just put the DD 3x3 in the basket ready to buy, but now im seeing all of you lovely folk mentioning lighter tarps from 400g to 200g, what would they be called if you dont mind me asking?

 

[dewi]

I use a DD 3x3... I've never considered it to be heavy... I carry it with my hammock in a separate shoulder bag, and that bag is the lightest of the 3 I carry.

Granted, I don't hike for miles, so maybe that is why weight is critical... horses for courses as they say.

 

[sunndog]

Hi sorry to interrupt i'm just in the market for a 3x3 tarp and had just put the DD 3x3 in the basket ready to buy, but now im seeing all of you lovely folk mentioning lighter tarps from 400g to 200g, what would they be called if you dont mind me asking?

Have a look on backpackinglight.com for starters dude. they have a decent range of sizes and a good video on different tarp set ups to give you an idea of what you might need.

 

[elefantman]

Hi sorry to interrupt i'm just in the market for a 3x3 tarp and had just put the DD 3x3 in the basket ready to buy, but now im seeing all of you lovely folk mentioning lighter tarps from 400g to 200g, what would they be called if you dont mind me asking?

Ive just clicked and purchased their super light 3x3 @ 460g. This plus an oookworks bathtub @170g and a few pegs etc and i'll be at around 800gr. Seems light enough to me... but then again I'm a newbie moving over form a 1.5kg gelert solo tent.

 

[dewi]

Weird thing is though, only last week we discussed how much water we carry... and the majority said between a two and three litres... so that's 2000gr to 3000gr of water.

The difference between a lightweight and a standard DD is what, 300gr... so drink the equivalent of a can of pop's worth of water... you're carrying the same weight and you don't need to spend extra cash on a new tarp when you have a perfectly serviceable one.

As I say, balance of fairness, I don't travel light... I carry more food for a weekend than most would carry for a week... so understanding a weight difference less than a can of pop is a bit weird to me.

 

[Quixoticgeek]

Hi sorry to interrupt i'm just in the market for a 3x3 tarp and had just put the DD 3x3 in the basket ready to buy, but now im seeing all of you lovely folk mentioning lighter tarps from 400g to 200g, what would they be called if you dont mind me asking?

My 200g tarp is a Rab Siltarp 1, it's listed as 200g, mine weighs 198, and the bag is 18g on top. It's not 3mx3m, but 1.5m x 2.2m so not a fair comparison. But in terms of meeting the need "SHELTER", it does what I want. If I am prepared to sacrifice weight for concealment, I have a Miltec Flecktarn tarp which is 2.60x1.70cm. Weight: 439g. Again, not 3x3, so not a fair comparison. But it's big enough for how I use a tarp. This weekend I was using my British army DPM basha, it's Size 256cm x 222cm, and comes in at 1kg. It's too heavy for most things I use a tarp for, but as I only had to carry it 7km each way, and on a bike, I was prepared to accept the weight penalty. Had I gone on food, I'd have taken the siltarp.

Siltarp 1 Pitched on the North downs:

Miltec flecktarn tarp pitched in Luxembourg:

DPM tarp on the Saxon shore way:

Within the Bushcraft community there are some items that seem to be considered by many as the only valid choice, dd 3x3 tarp, zebra billy can, mora clipper knife, bahco folding saw. I have the knife and the saw, I'm less than impressed by the other two.

I'm sure there are times when a non hammock user can benefit from the extra coverage that 9 square meters of tarp offers you, coupled with the the unique pitching options that a square tarp allows. But in those situations I'm more likely to want a tent type shelter (Luxe Hex peak or similar).

Hammock users will have different requirements and thus can benefit from the 9 square meters. I don't use a hammock tho.

J

 

[sunndog]

3x3 aint brilliant for hammocks either julia, square pitched its too short for a decent length hammock and on the diagonal you loose too much side coverage if its windy

 

[sunndog]

I use a DD 3x3... I've never considered it to be heavy... I carry it with my hammock in a separate shoulder bag, and that bag is the lightest of the 3 I carry.

Granted, I don't hike for miles, so maybe that is why weight is critical... horses for courses as they say.

3 bags!.....tell me they arent full size rucksacks lol

Also on the food front, if we ever go to same meet up, remind me to camp near you

 

[Quixoticgeek]

Weird thing is though, only last week we discussed how much water we carry... and the majority said between a two and three litres... so that's 2000gr to 3000gr of water.

The difference between a lightweight and a standard DD is what, 300gr... so drink the equivalent of a can of pop's worth of water... you're carrying the same weight and you don't need to spend extra cash on a new tarp when you have a perfectly serviceable one.

As I say, balance of fairness, I don't travel light... I carry more food for a weekend than most would carry for a week... so understanding a weight difference less than a can of pop is a bit weird to me.

Yes and no. Kinda sorta.

If you have a pack that weighs 15kg, and you add 3L of water, you increase your pack weight by 20% and it's now 18kg. Which is A Lot™. If I replace a tarp in that 15kg and save 300g, then I reduce the pack weight by 2%, add the 3kg of water and it's not that significant. *BUT*, if I have 10 items in that pack, and I shave 300g off each of them, I save 3kg. Enough for that water...

For perspective, my dry packweight (that's sans water, food and fuel), is 5kg. If I swap my 200g tarp for an 800g tarp, That adds 600g to my pack, and increases it by 12%. If I did that on every item I wouldn't be able to carry it...

Ideally I would not carry 3kg of water, at most if moving I'll tend to only have 1kg of water, I carry a water filter, and am acutely aware of where I might next find water. Just before I stop for the night, I may add an extra 500g of water so I can make a cuppa in the morning before I find my first source.

In any discussion of weight saving it generally looks really petty, shaving 200g here, 300g there. But it really adds up, I shaved 2.7kg by swapping from a Berghaus Vulcan to a Exped lightning 60. The lightning is just 40% of the weight of the vulcan. I shaved 700g off my sleeping bag, 800g off my sleep mat, and so on.

I use a DD 3x3... I've never considered it to be heavy... I carry it with my hammock in a separate shoulder bag, and that bag is the lightest of the 3 I carry.

Granted, I don't hike for miles, so maybe that is why weight is critical... horses for courses as they say.

Three bags? Yeah, sod that. One pack on my back only please, and then if you picked it up you'd likely react "that's light". Each unto their own.

Horses for courses.

J

 

[elefantman]

Weird thing is though, only last week we discussed how much water we carry... and the majority said between a two and three litres... so that's 2000gr to 3000gr of water.

The difference between a lightweight and a standard DD is what, 300gr... so drink the equivalent of a can of pop's worth of water... you're carrying the same weight and you don't need to spend extra cash on a new tarp when you have a perfectly serviceable one.

As I say, balance of fairness, I don't travel light... I carry more food for a weekend than most would carry for a week... so understanding a weight difference less than a can of pop is a bit weird to me.

For me it's a forced decision...I'm trying to cut every ounce of weight from my pack due to a couple of duff discs in my lower back. I can't imagine life without wandering the lakes, wales or the highlands each year..and camping wherever I end the day... but I simply can't lug my normal 16kg pack for any distance. By changing out my bag, tent, sleeping bag, dcookin kit and dropping some items I take for extras (hip flask and fishing kit) im down to 12... incl 2l of water.
Each small change soon added up.. and for £20 a saving of 300gr was cheap compared to the chiropractor bills lol.

 

[Quixoticgeek]

3x3 aint brilliant for hammocks either julia, square pitched its too short for a decent length hammock and on the diagonal you loose too much side coverage if its windy

Like I say, I don't swing. I don't get why everyone loves the dd 3x3 so much. And this is one of the reasons why.

You say the 3x3 isn't big enough, so now you're going to a 4x4 tarp, you're looking for trees 5m or more apart, If you rig in an A frame with 45° sides, then you're going to be blocking from the ridge line down by 1.41m. Laying in your hammock you're going to be out of the wind, but not able to see out under the tarp and see the world around you. Pitch it on the diagonal and you've got 5.66m of tarp before you add any cordage. You're sides are going to be coming down really low, you're closing yourself off from nature.

You'll notice in the pictures I linked above that I've used an offset A in 2 of them. I lose some visibility to the rear, but gain a protection from the wind in that direction. I can still see out 3 sides, and laying on the floor easily just stuck my head under the back to see if that's a badger I can hear. It allows me to be closer to nature.

That said, a hammock would get me above the slugs...

Everything I am saying here is based on use in a Northern temperate climate. In a Jungle environment, the situation is different.

To put this all in context, this is the view I woke to on the North Downs way recently:

J

 

[dewi]

3 bags!.....tell me they arent full size rucksacks lol

Also on the food front, if we ever go to same meet up, remind me to camp near you

I'm greedy though

I carry a rucksack, a grab bag and a shoulder bag... the rucksack is light as it has clothes, sleeping bag and the like in it... the grab bag has food, knife, saw, fire kit etc and my shoulder bag has hammock, tarp and paracord.

But I do carry a lot of water and a lot of food... the majority of the weight I reckon is in the food. I like a good solid main meal every night, so usually I carry about a kilo of meat... then either wet noodles or veg... always take a sweet potato (nothing better than a fire-baked sweet potato... beans, gravies, sauerkraut, chorizo and bread. Then there is breakfast and lunch to consider... bacon, eggs, noodles, rice meals, occasionally maybe a couple of tins of tuna or sardines. Add to that the obligatory chocolate bar, the tin of coffee, bag of green tea and a selection of evening beverages... I reckon I carry enough to feed a family of 4 for the weekend

 

[Quixoticgeek]

For me it's a forced decision...I'm trying to cut every ounce of weight from my pack due to a couple of duff discs in my lower back. I can't imagine life without wandering the lakes, wales or the highlands each year..and camping wherever I end the day... but I simply can't lug my normal 16kg pack for any distance. By changing out my bag, tent, sleeping bag, dcookin kit and dropping some items I take for extras (hip flask and fishing kit) im down to 12... incl 2l of water.
Each small change soon added up.. and for £20 a saving of 300gr was cheap compared to the chiropractor bills lol.

Know that one. Be warned shedding pack weight can become addictive. I had to slap myself recently when I was trying to decide between pegs that were 6.5g or 7g...

BTW, if you want to start another thread with your 12kg kit list, I'm sure myself and others would be happy to make suggestions to help you shed even more weight.

J

 

[dewi]

Yes and no. Kinda sorta.

If you have a pack that weighs 15kg, and you add 3L of water, you increase your pack weight by 20% and it's now 18kg. Which is A Lot™. If I replace a tarp in that 15kg and save 300g, then I reduce the pack weight by 2%, add the 3kg of water and it's not that significant. *BUT*, if I have 10 items in that pack, and I shave 300g off each of them, I save 3kg. Enough for that water...

For perspective, my dry packweight (that's sans water, food and fuel), is 5kg. If I swap my 200g tarp for an 800g tarp, That adds 600g to my pack, and increases it by 12%. If I did that on every item I wouldn't be able to carry it...

Ideally I would not carry 3kg of water, at most if moving I'll tend to only have 1kg of water, I carry a water filter, and am acutely aware of where I might next find water. Just before I stop for the night, I may add an extra 500g of water so I can make a cuppa in the morning before I find my first source.

In any discussion of weight saving it generally looks really petty, shaving 200g here, 300g there. But it really adds up, I shaved 2.7kg by swapping from a Berghaus Vulcan to a Exped lightning 60. The lightning is just 40% of the weight of the vulcan. I shaved 700g off my sleeping bag, 800g off my sleep mat, and so on.



Three bags? Yeah, sod that. One pack on my back only please, and then if you picked it up you'd likely react "that's light". Each unto their own.

Horses for courses.

J

We're very different in the loads we carry... I work on a maximum weight being 30% of my body weight... and without saying what my body weight is I carry a lot more than 18kg between the 3 bags.

The shoulder bag probably weighs about half of what you're carrying in your pack and its my throw on bag if you like... doesn't bother me at all... my backpack is a simple one, no extra pouches, just a single holdall... its my grab bag where the weight is and I can either carry it as a carry bag, or I have back straps to carry it like a rucksack if needs be.

I did forget though, I also have a waist bag that I carry tobbaco, a phone charger and a leatherman in, plus any treats for the weekend, like cigars, sugar cubes or my camera if I'm going to a nice looking location.

As you say, horses for courses... I'm a big lad and I can carry a heavy load. Saying that, I'm also unfit... and that load is reducing with time... but I'd be lightning the food load before changing out my sleeping gear I think. Just me maybe.

 

[Quixoticgeek]

I'm greedy though

I carry a rucksack, a grab bag and a shoulder bag... the rucksack is light as it has clothes, sleeping bag and the like in it... the grab bag has food, knife, saw, fire kit etc and my shoulder bag has hammock, tarp and paracord.

But I do carry a lot of water and a lot of food... the majority of the weight I reckon is in the food. I like a good solid main meal every night, so usually I carry about a kilo of meat... then either wet noodles or veg... always take a sweet potato (nothing better than a fire-baked sweet potato... beans, gravies, sauerkraut, chorizo and bread. Then there is breakfast and lunch to consider... bacon, eggs, noodles, rice meals, occasionally maybe a couple of tins of tuna or sardines. Add to that the obligatory chocolate bar, the tin of coffee, bag of green tea and a selection of evening beverages... I reckon I carry enough to feed a family of 4 for the weekend

For what period is this ? 1kg of meat is a lot...

I personally prefer proper food on a trip and will take things like mince beef, onion, stock cubes, herbs, spuds, and make up a one pot mince beef & onions, with some spuds. I've done roasted chicken breast with roast spuds. Stews etc... But that tends to be only on static camps, where I am going to one place, and camping there for a few days. When travelling I will use a dehydrated or freeze dried meals.

J

 

[dewi]

For me it's a forced decision...I'm trying to cut every ounce of weight from my pack due to a couple of duff discs in my lower back. I can't imagine life without wandering the lakes, wales or the highlands each year..and camping wherever I end the day... but I simply can't lug my normal 16kg pack for any distance. By changing out my bag, tent, sleeping bag, dcookin kit and dropping some items I take for extras (hip flask and fishing kit) im down to 12... incl 2l of water.
Each small change soon added up.. and for £20 a saving of 300gr was cheap compared to the chiropractor bills lol.

Blimey... I see why a pack weight is important to you! And yeah, I agree if you're forced into it due to your circumstances... like I said earlier... weight becomes a big issue.

For me, although I'm unfit, I can carry a good deal of weight and although I wouldn't call it comfortable... once I arrive where I'm camping, I like to be very comfortable... so the short term discomfort for me is worth it if I'm staying a couple of days.

That would be entirely different if my medical condition dictated what I could carry... but I have a metal ankle now which seems to hold well, and as long as I don't overload my back (and take the odd break if I'm walking any distance) I'm good to go with a load of around 30% of my body weight. Not as much weight as some carry, particularly not those in the armed forces (the weights they carry are unbelievable) but enough to make me comfortable when I get to site.

 

[Quixoticgeek]

We're very different in the loads we carry... I work on a maximum weight being 30% of my body weight... and without saying what my body weight is I carry a lot more than 18kg between the 3 bags.

I can carry 30% of my body weight, at one job I would routinely carry 70% of my body weight short distances. I've travelled round Europe with 30+kg packs. Sod that for a game of soldiers. I can be just as comfortable, with a much lighter pack.

The shoulder bag probably weighs about half of what you're carrying in your pack and its my throw on bag if you like... doesn't bother me at all... my backpack is a simple one, no extra pouches, just a single holdall... its my grab bag where the weight is and I can either carry it as a carry bag, or I have back straps to carry it like a rucksack if needs be.

Just how far are you carrying this lot? 10km? 15km?

I did forget though, I also have a waist bag that I carry tobbaco, a phone charger and a leatherman in, plus any treats for the weekend, like cigars, sugar cubes or my camera if I'm going to a nice looking location.

I have a Leatherman wave, I stopped carrying it, as it's too heavy, so I got a Leatherman Juice cs4, but that's too heavy, so have ordered a ps4... I only carry a Leatherman if I have a gas/petrol stove...

As you say, horses for courses... I'm a big lad and I can carry a heavy load. Saying that, I'm also unfit... and that load is reducing with time... but I'd be lightning the food load before changing out my sleeping gear I think. Just me maybe.

Bushcraft is a broad church.

J

 

[dewi]

For what period is this ? 1kg of meat is a lot...

I personally prefer proper food on a trip and will take things like mince beef, onion, stock cubes, herbs, spuds, and make up a one pot mince beef & onions, with some spuds. I've done roasted chicken breast with roast spuds. Stews etc... But that tends to be only on static camps, where I am going to one place, and camping there for a few days. When travelling I will use a dehydrated or freeze dried meals.

J

2 nights... if its 3 nights I'll add a couple of burgers or maybe some lamb chops into the mix... any more than 3 nights, half my bag is meat.

First meet I went to with BCUK members I took half a kilo of sausages... almost a kilo of chicken legs... a lamb leg.... 2 decent sized steaks... two packs of bacon... and chorizo. That was just the meat selection... and I did share the lamb leg with everyone at the meet obviously... but the rest was for my breakfast, lunch and dinner for the weekend.

 

[Quixoticgeek]

2 nights... if its 3 nights I'll add a couple of burgers or maybe some lamb chops into the mix... any more than 3 nights, half my bag is meat.

First meet I went to with BCUK members I took half a kilo of sausages... almost a kilo of chicken legs... a lamb leg.... 2 decent sized steaks... two packs of bacon... and chorizo. That was just the meat selection... and I did share the lamb leg with everyone at the meet obviously... but the rest was for my breakfast, lunch and dinner for the weekend.

You must be doing quite a lot of exercise, burning lots of energy to be able to eat that much and not become huge!

J