.177 or .22?
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Both produce the same muzzle energy in legal rifles (12 ft lbs). the .177 has a flatter trajectory and is therefore easier to judge holdover etc. there are some debates over penetration vs expended energy (.177 penetrates better but may go through wasting energy on small prey, .22 moves slower and makes a bigger hole. Contrary to popular myth, the ideal for a projectile is for it to spread and not come out the other side thereby wasting energy - a single widening hole is sufficient).
Short answer - both do the job, .177 is easier to hit what you aim at to some extent (check out field target gunns - .177 dominates), some believe .22 is more effective if shot placement is correct.
Frankly I don't have a preference (well I do and its not to use an airgun except where its unsafe to use anything more powerful - then I reach for my .22 Webley - no real reason why .22 - it just is)
Red
Short answer - both do the job, .177 is easier to hit what you aim at to some extent (check out field target gunns - .177 dominates), some believe .22 is more effective if shot placement is correct.
Frankly I don't have a preference (well I do and its not to use an airgun except where its unsafe to use anything more powerful - then I reach for my .22 Webley - no real reason why .22 - it just is)
Red
Iv checked airgunbbs.com for second hand airguns, but Im looking for an Air Arms S400 cheap. Tal arms have it at £295, but Iv had bad expierience with them before ordering on the net. My local stockist charge £335 for an AA S400 at www.chweston.co.uk
Anyone know a reliable source for a reasonably priced AA S400?
Anyone know a reliable source for a reasonably priced AA S400?
I've used TAL for ammunition and so forth they were both reasonable and helpful for unusual calibres (e.g. FMJ .303 ). I find it best to call in and talk to them though - they are on a small parade of shops in Christchurch with parking outside so its fairly easy although they are quite a treck from you.
Why not ask your local shop to match TALs price? They can only say no and its always better to shop local - you wil need them in the future for pellets and stuff and probably more stuff once you turn 18. Best to do it face to face (or even ask your dad to do it) - say "look I really want to buy from you but I cant afford the extra £30 - can you match their price?" they may throw in some pellets or a gun slip or something to make it a fair deal
Red
Why not ask your local shop to match TALs price? They can only say no and its always better to shop local - you wil need them in the future for pellets and stuff and probably more stuff once you turn 18. Best to do it face to face (or even ask your dad to do it) - say "look I really want to buy from you but I cant afford the extra £30 - can you match their price?" they may throw in some pellets or a gun slip or something to make it a fair deal
Red
Actually of all things I never thought of haggling with them or trying to strike a deal. I think it might be a good idea to do that. The blokes in C&H Weston have been well alright in the past with other purchases...BB guns and airpistols, etc. Thanks Red, you'v been most helpfull.:You_Rock_
No, I shoot .22 Mk 1 Rapid and a little .22 webley vulcan I found in the attic! It's just people go on about which is best, and I think it just boils down to what you find works for you. You will put so much lead through your rifle that you will learn where your shots will fall at varying ranges, so it doesn't really matter that much IMO.
Also, be quick as I am sure the rules are about to change with regards to buying air rifles online. I don't know the full details though. Try the airgun bbs aswell as they have a good selection of second hand rifles coming up for sale all the time, I'm sure you will be able to pick up an Air Arms quite easily.
Will you be doing Ft or are you in the field shooting at pests? A 410 may be preferable if you are hunting. You have the opportunity of a quick second shot, people say to finish off if you don't quite do the job with the first shot which does sometimes happen, but also a second opportunity target can be quickly engaged.
Also, be quick as I am sure the rules are about to change with regards to buying air rifles online. I don't know the full details though. Try the airgun bbs aswell as they have a good selection of second hand rifles coming up for sale all the time, I'm sure you will be able to pick up an Air Arms quite easily.
Will you be doing Ft or are you in the field shooting at pests? A 410 may be preferable if you are hunting. You have the opportunity of a quick second shot, people say to finish off if you don't quite do the job with the first shot which does sometimes happen, but also a second opportunity target can be quickly engaged.
My 4p is go for .22.
I have used several .22 rifles over the years and my experience is that if you practice practice practice you will know where your pellet will land, as Spamel said. Because the .22 pellet is larger and heavier it carries a bigger punch and is more likely to stay in your quarry than a .177 that may possibly pass straight through.
The calculation to determine the power output of any air weapon in ftlb takes into account the weight of the pellet and the muzzle velocity when it is expelled from the gun. Because a .177 pellet is lighter it has a faster muzzle velocity than the .22. This leads to a flatter trajectory in flight so .177 is more forgiving when judging ranges.
This means as the .22 pellet is heavier and travelling slower than the .177 is is more likely to hit hard and stay in the target. The faster lighter .177 is more likely to pass through.
Both calibers will deal with small vermin well. It boils down to personal choice and more often than not what is the right price at the gunsmiths. In my case I recently purchased a .22 Logun S16 which is used regularly on rabbits.
Hope this helps, it is a bit too much like physics for this time in the morning!
Stewey.
I have used several .22 rifles over the years and my experience is that if you practice practice practice you will know where your pellet will land, as Spamel said. Because the .22 pellet is larger and heavier it carries a bigger punch and is more likely to stay in your quarry than a .177 that may possibly pass straight through.
The calculation to determine the power output of any air weapon in ftlb takes into account the weight of the pellet and the muzzle velocity when it is expelled from the gun. Because a .177 pellet is lighter it has a faster muzzle velocity than the .22. This leads to a flatter trajectory in flight so .177 is more forgiving when judging ranges.
This means as the .22 pellet is heavier and travelling slower than the .177 is is more likely to hit hard and stay in the target. The faster lighter .177 is more likely to pass through.
Both calibers will deal with small vermin well. It boils down to personal choice and more often than not what is the right price at the gunsmiths. In my case I recently purchased a .22 Logun S16 which is used regularly on rabbits.
Hope this helps, it is a bit too much like physics for this time in the morning!
Stewey.
I took my brothers' S410 out, he has the classic in .22. It was like a cannon! I'm still not sure if the previous owner tweaked it and I need to take it to the gun shop to get it chronoed for him. I've also shot Ratbags' S410K in .177 and there is a difference in pellet flight, it is so easy to hit things with it. He has put loads of rabbits down with that rifle, same as my Rapid in .22 so I reckon it is just the flight of the pellet that is the big difference. I don't think I'll ever buy a .177 now for the simple fact that I will need seperate pellets for the rifles and i just can't be bothered with the hassle!
Spamel my old Weirauch HW80 was like a cannon, I took it into a gunsmith to be chrono'd it turned out to be over the legal limit, he was duty bound to confiscate it. The silver lining was that this forced me into a position where I had to either have a load of work done to it to bring it back to legality or spend a little more (app £20) and get the Logun as a replacement.
As I may want to go for my firearms ticket in the future I didn't want any possibility of blighting my record with the old gun, it was classed as a firearm. I understand from my brother in law (who is a copper) that the police take a rather dim view of people who illegally hold firearms!
Sharp88 for highjacking the thread.:tapedshut
Regards
Stewey.
As I may want to go for my firearms ticket in the future I didn't want any possibility of blighting my record with the old gun, it was classed as a firearm. I understand from my brother in law (who is a copper) that the police take a rather dim view of people who illegally hold firearms!
Sharp88 for highjacking the thread.:tapedshut
Regards
Stewey.
I would be a good investment for the S410 but I just dont have the money! My family are already frowning and going nuts as it is lol At £400-£465 big ones...its pretty harsh. I pulled the money out of my savings and investment and promised to use a chunk of it for driving lessons, she'd kill me. Even if I got the S410 second hand it would be alot more than the S400.
This really sucks.
Try the S200 for size. Doesn't look as nice but is just as accurate and can be adapted to a ten shot mag.
For air rifles I prefer .177. My logic is that with an air rifle you're going generally for headshots not bodyshots, since with the amount of energy left in the pellet at 30 to 40 yards that's the only way to maximise the chances of a clean kill. The .22 will have roughly 20% more energy at that range and will be less likely to pass straight through, however it's irrelevant if it does if you've got a headshot - the damage will have been plenty enough even with a .177. And the advantages with .177 are A. flatter trajectory (accurate shot placement more likely) and B. cheaper pellets.
The 410 is a beautiful gun - in fact I like most of the AA range. Have you thought about a springer though? My favorite air rifle at the moment is the AA TX200HC. Takes a bit more skill to shoot accurately than a PCP (though well worth it when you can - going back to a PCP you'll be spot on)... it's a lot cheaper though; cheaper gun, no bottles, adaptors, etc. No hassle filling. Only thing I miss is the mags.
Oh and btw, I heard somewhere that some time soon mail order air rifle sales in the UK are going to be banned. Not sure what date exactly...
The 410 is a beautiful gun - in fact I like most of the AA range. Have you thought about a springer though? My favorite air rifle at the moment is the AA TX200HC. Takes a bit more skill to shoot accurately than a PCP (though well worth it when you can - going back to a PCP you'll be spot on)... it's a lot cheaper though; cheaper gun, no bottles, adaptors, etc. No hassle filling. Only thing I miss is the mags.
Oh and btw, I heard somewhere that some time soon mail order air rifle sales in the UK are going to be banned. Not sure what date exactly...
can't you compensate for this by using differenet pellet's? I've heard of people getting good penetration results from using wad-cutters, or flat-top pellett's. I'm not sure if a .177 will just push the pellet through regardless, where a .22's greater mass would result in proper pellet deformation?
if you get pellets that work well with your rifle I guess that would help yes!
To be honest I've tried flat heads on none of the air rifles I have now... a couple years back I used to use them for target shooting but I found they were never as accurate as normal domed ones. I believe I read somewhere they were more inclined to become unstable and tumble in flight.
Saying that next time I'm placing an order I might well get another tin full. Give them another shot so to speak...
To be honest I've tried flat heads on none of the air rifles I have now... a couple years back I used to use them for target shooting but I found they were never as accurate as normal domed ones. I believe I read somewhere they were more inclined to become unstable and tumble in flight.
Saying that next time I'm placing an order I might well get another tin full. Give them another shot so to speak...
People have all kinds of theories about pellets, flat head pellets for rats up close, pointed pellets for long range pigeons and round head for mid range rabbit etc etc.
Then you have the plastic skirt, steel head or wonder alloy pellets, forget about them all.
At the end of the day a good quality round head lead pellet is the best all round choice, find one that's readily available and that works well in your gun, buy as many as you can and practise with only those pellet's.
I have 2 x .22 and 2x .177 air rifles, i FT with one .177, HFT and a little hunting with the other .177.
The .22's are mid (18ft/lbs) and high powered (30 ft'lbs) guns and to be honest i like .22 better for hunting (even at 12ft/lbs) .
.177 is better at 12ft/lbs for FT because range estimation and pellet trajectory are all important but i like the stopping power of the bigger pellet when hunting.
Both will do the job, most important thing thing to do is practise and get to know your gun, scope, pellet combination really well.
Once you work out the trajectory and you are able to consistently hit say a 40mm circle then your ready to go.
I stick the trajectory on my gun or scope so i always have it to hand.
This is for a 12ft/lb AAS410, .177
LHS is range in yards next is the hold over or under in mm's
Then you have the plastic skirt, steel head or wonder alloy pellets, forget about them all.
At the end of the day a good quality round head lead pellet is the best all round choice, find one that's readily available and that works well in your gun, buy as many as you can and practise with only those pellet's.
I have 2 x .22 and 2x .177 air rifles, i FT with one .177, HFT and a little hunting with the other .177.
The .22's are mid (18ft/lbs) and high powered (30 ft'lbs) guns and to be honest i like .22 better for hunting (even at 12ft/lbs) .
.177 is better at 12ft/lbs for FT because range estimation and pellet trajectory are all important but i like the stopping power of the bigger pellet when hunting.
Both will do the job, most important thing thing to do is practise and get to know your gun, scope, pellet combination really well.
Once you work out the trajectory and you are able to consistently hit say a 40mm circle then your ready to go.
I stick the trajectory on my gun or scope so i always have it to hand.
This is for a 12ft/lb AAS410, .177
LHS is range in yards next is the hold over or under in mm's
I've tried both and prefer .22. I still have a HW97K in .177 but don't use it much. To hunt I used to have a Rapid7 in .22 but now have an Eliminator in .22. Everyone is going to have a different view on the subject .
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