Changing attitudes about firearms

[Toddy]

How terribly reassuring that American aircraft passenger and luggage searchs are so ineffective

I couldn't even get a 200g jar of honey past ours.......limit was 100g uppy_dog

cheers,
Toddy

 

[Oblio13]

How terribly reassuring that American aircraft passenger and luggage searchs are so ineffective ...

Not sure if you're being serious or sarcastic, but they were all legal and there intentionally. There will be some on my flight to London at the end of the month, too.

Here's another little known fact: On flight ##11 (one of the flights hijacked with boxcutters that was crashed into the World Trade Center) there was a cop. His weapon, as per the regulations of the time, was in his checked luggage, in the baggage compartment.

I knew all 11 of the crewmembers, and I used to regularly fly that route. Pure chanced that it wasn't me. If the pilots or any of the passengers had been armed legitimately, I wonder how it would have panned out. Certainly couldn't have been any worse.

If we could bring Captain Oganowski back from the dead for a magical do-over, I wonder what he'd say. "Captain, would you like to be trained and armed as pilots are since 9/11, or would you like to have your throat cut again and your aircraft used to murder thousands?"

 

[xylaria]

On a dark night the BCUK key chain light I got as my pressie for being a full member, is pretty unpleasant to get your eyes as well.

I have no idea how common male rape is. Any statistics would be pretty meaning less, as the drastic emotional effect of it on the victim would make any form of reporting very difficult. The break-away methods I learned when I worked in prison system hold a risk of perminant harm to a male victim where they didn't to female. I was told it was legally justifed to reach behind to an attcker that is laying on your back and grab them by the hair and them with the other hand blind them. This maybe the safest method of defence for a male.

I lived in higher broughton in G.manchester 12 years ago. The gas man would turn up with three vans two of which had bullet holes. Bus drivers though certain areas were paid a fortune and the bus company still couldn't find the staff. I can now completly understand where Bigshot is coming from. I have lived in east london as well, and that felt no where near as bad salford. If the girl gang in salford that used to put a knife to the neck of children in prams had a gun, I would proberly want one too. But then if the people that knew who they were rang crimestoppers rather than stick to the "don't grass" rule there wouldn't be problem in first place. We moved to stoke, it was the best thing we ever did.

 

[Oblio13]

... male rape ...

Not that I expect or even want an answer, I know this isn't the appropriate forum, but I'm sitting here asking myself: "How? Wouldn't the 'victim' have to be, ah, 'willing', for it to be possible? And most important, where can an ugly, obnoxious dude go where such a threat is credible?"

 

[Toddy]

QUOTE]


Actually I was being fascetious, but your post did indicate that 17 firearms were on your flight........concealed here means illegal/ hidden/ surreptitious........that alone is enough to warrant my concern.
Last time I flew the entire passenger load were searched, x rayed, our luggage hand searched and scanned with detectors, and that was only within Europe.

You are hardly reassuring us that American airlines are any safer since the hi jacks.

Toddy

 

[xylaria]

Not that I expect or even want an answer, I know this isn't the appropriate forum, but I'm sitting here asking myself: "How? Wouldn't the 'victim' have to be, ah, 'willing', for it to be possible? And most important, where can an ugly, obnoxious dude go where such a threat is credible?"

EER I will private message you the answer.

 

[Oblio13]

How terribly reassuring that American aircraft passenger and luggage searchs are so ineffective

And yet Richard Reid the shoebomber made it through London.

(I know some of that crew, too, including the flight attendant that he bit while she prevented him from lighting it.)

 

[Oblio13]

QUOTE]
You are hardly reassuring us that American airlines are any safer since the hi jacks.

Well, there haven't been any more hijackings of US airliners since we started arming pilots and putting incognito air marshals on board. There haven't been any El Al hijackings ever, and they do the same thing.

There have been quite a few hijackings of other carriers.

So, maybe it's working, no?

 

[Pict]

"...concealed here means illegal/ hidden/ surreptitious..." Toddy

Cultural difference, easily understood.

"Concealed" here means, has a permit, has never committed a felony, no history of domestic violence, has never been committed to a mental institution, and has a clean drug record. A concealed carry permit means the person is several hundred times less likely to commit a crime than those around him and (taken as a group) has a better shooting record than police officers.

Mac

 

[Wallenstein]

Not that I expect or even want an answer, I know this isn't the appropriate forum, but I'm sitting here asking myself: "How? Wouldn't the 'victim' have to be, ah, 'willing', for it to be possible? And most important, where can an ugly, obnoxious dude go where such a threat is credible?"

You're assuming this is female-->male... rape is most often male-->male.

For the authentic experience apply to your nearest supermax penitentiary and ask for "Bubba".

 

[Toddy]

Well, there haven't been any more hijackings of US airliners since we started arming pilots and putting incognito air marshals on board. There haven't been any El Al hijackings ever, and they do the same thing.

There have been quite a few hijackings of other carriers.

So, maybe it's working, no?

Reid was found on an American airlines flight from Paris........and was apparantly restrained useing seatbelts having been taken down by stewardesses and passengers.....no firearms involved. This was less than four months after the twin tower/ hijacks. I suspect Europe was still in the belief that this was an American problem.

Toddy

 

[Oblio13]

You're assuming this is female-->male... rape is most often male-->male.

For the authentic experience apply to your nearest supermax penitentiary and ask for "Bubba".

Oops, hadn't considered that combination of sexes. I had a (hopeful) mental image of gangs of British supermodels and gymnasts looking for obnoxious, homely middle-aged men to have their way with.

 

[Oblio13]

Reid was found on an American airlines flight from Paris........and was apparantly restrained useing seatbelts having been taken down by stewardesses and passengers.....no firearms involved. This was less than four months after the twin tower/ hijacks. I suspect Europe was still in the belief that this was an American problem.

Oops, another of my mistakes. He was a British citizen flying out of Paris.

Passengers complained of a burning smell. An acquaintance of mine named Cristina saw him trying to light a fuse, and grabbed him. He bit her badly, and her screaming initiated quite a brawl. He was eventually restrained with, among other things, a large dose of Valium and a big fellow holding his ponytail from the seat behind.

No firearms were aboard that flight, the legislation that allowed it had not yet been passed, no pilots had yet been trained. Not that they would have served a purpose anyway. I freely admit that firearms won't always protect one from bombs, meteorites or smallpox. They seem, however, to have deterred further hijackings.

 

[wingstoo]

I had a (hopeful) mental image of gangs of British supermodels looking for obnoxious and homely middle-aged men to have their way with.

Back of the queue for you on that one....

 

[korvin karbon]

Another surprisingly effective improvised weapon when you see it demonstrated by someone knowledgeable is a tightly-rolled magazine. No wonder all my passengers have those National Geographics and Vogues...

been there done that, your best with a glued spine IMHO. Used a rucksac with Peter F Hamilton books before (hardback) was fined by the library for bening the end of the front cover LOL

Anything can be used as a weapon, all depends on how intent the person is. weapons jsut make the job easier, if the person is dedicated to causing harm they will find a way. uns just make it more efficent.

 

[Toddy]

Reply to post 353

Firearms or concerned vigilance ?
Our police motto is Semper vigilio, always vigilant. Kind of seems appropriate. On the other hand, the King of Scots motto is nemo me impune lacessit...........which translates as no one attacks me with impunity......or in the vernacular.........Try it, pal! or Bring it on !
The would be bombers at Glasgow airport were stopped by vigilant and unarmed ordinary folks, not armed police, well, that and their own stupidity.............imagine the idiocy of trying to bring a religious war to Glasgow

cheers,
Toddy

 

[gregorach]

The theme tune for the Glasgow bombers: Set Myself On Fire, by XTC.

 

[Oblio13]

Reply to post 353

Firearms or concerned vigilance ?

I don't get the connection to post 353, I may be missing something again.

Concerned vigilance is always a good thing. It may be a hopeless good thing if you bring a knife to a gun fight.

Our police motto is Semper vigilio, always vigilant.

Mine is Semper Scrotus, always on the ball.

(My wife doesn't think I'm funny, either...)

 

[wingstoo]

The would be bombers at Glasgow airport were stopped by vigilant and unarmed ordinary folks, not armed police, well, that and their own stupidity.............imagine the idiocy of trying to bring a religious war to Glasgow

cheers,
Toddy

So the bombers didn't crash a jeep into the building and it didn't catch fire? From what I saw the bombers did their bit, fortunately the mission they were on failed.

Or did I imagine that building on fire?

 

[gregorach]

The building didn't catch fire, as far as I recall. And certainly nothing exploded, which is what they were aiming for. They just set themselves on fire.