Why use a sleeping bag?

[KIMBOKO]

As I understand it the Great Kilt is 6 to 8 metres(yards) or fabric 1.8metres(6ft ) wide. in which you wrap yourself to make a pleated kilt below the belt and use the rest of the fabric above the belt to cover the top half of the body. At night the material could be re-arranged to make a sleeping bag or blanket. I have just bought 6 metres of fabric but tradition has it that up to 8 metres may be used and that of a heavyweight all wool cloth possibly 8oz or more to the sq yard.
So a sleeping bag shape could made 6 foot long and with 4 to 6 layers of wool cloth. I reckon plenty to keep you warm. As this was the only clothing worn by many in the Scottish Highlands for possibly hundreds of years it has proved its practicality.
Although a long shirt is usually worn underneath to cover your dignity.
8 metres(yard) of cloth at 8oz to the yard weights about 8 pounds which equals about two and a half blankets plus there is added warmth from the air trapped between the layers. It seems to me to be a very practical garment if the wool was spun unwashed which I believe is easier and then left semi-greasy then it would be fairly waterproof. I don't recall reading about other outer garments from this time.
As someone said Toddy's your girl for this and I think she's at the Scottish meet this w/e.

I think I would take issue with lithril

"Due to the damp nature in the UK down is intrinsically flawed, it'll soak up the moisture in the air".

I have regularly used down and down and feather sleeping bags in this country and I have not found them soaking up moisture from the air. I believe the 58 pattern sleeping bag has been given a good testing in this country. You do have to be careful to keep it dry but then all kit requires some care to be taken.

 

[Gary]

Agree about the sleeping bags Nick, for over half my army career we had the old 58's - no bivi bags no big synth bags and we all got on fine. I have slept in a 58 everywhere from Ottoburn to the Falklands in snow and rain and survived! As you say all kit takes some care in use, but I would have that was simply good husbandry and common sense (rip common sense!)

Now I like the sound of the great Kilt, as suggested on another thread I am looking at escaping the boring bushcraft uniform look and currently looking at other styles, buckskins and such and would be very interested in seeing your great kilt in action.

I assume you'll be bringing it to a Ashdown meet up Nick - I can see it now, pole lathe and Kilt!!

 

[KIMBOKO]

How many times have you seen me in Ex-army green, swanni, ventile or dpm. I'm more M&S than surplus stores.
Kilt wise.
If I get to Ashdown you will see it. I am however returning from holiday that w/e and have to take my daughter to Guide camp Sunday morning So I think it will be a flying visit if at all.

Old Scottish saying "You'll no want a wind round the Trossachs!"

 

[jamesdevine]

Might be a safty issue with the pole lathe and kilt. Make sure you have it tucked away. The kilt that is.

james

 

[Robby]

First I'd like to say hello to everyone, this is my first time on the site.

I always find that getting out of my clothes and into a sleeping bag makes for a much warmer not to mention more comfortable sleep. Any time I've tried sleeping in my clothes I've always ended up feeling much colder than I normally do. I seem to remember my Uncle (that was my scoutmaster as well) telling me that you should change clothes for sleeping in in cold weather because even the perspiration absorbed during the day by your clothes was enough to cause you problems in bad conditions.

 

[stoddy]

Spamel!

CET's!!

I saw a rodney fire off the anchor, without connecting it!

Un-guided Projectile

he had a few extras for that

do they still have Ferret Scout cars out there?

are have they scrapped them now

 

[spamel]

Scout cars are put outside regi HQ's these days! Don't fire anchor any more, Terrier will replace CET in around 2008. Cet also has no amphibious role now, so no swimming. It still has the NBC hatch for storing the kit you want to keep dry, namely sleeping bags, which brings this thread nicely back on topic!!

 

[Toddy]

Hello,
I've just picked up on this thread.
Sleeping bags.....well the Vikings and other Northern folks used to use an entire seal skin bag as a waterproof warm sleep sack so there's good provenance for them.
The great kilt is only part of the equation, the long linen sark (shirt) is the breathable undergarment that keeps everything comfortable. It comes down to the lower thighs at least.
A woollen cloak is an excellent garment....if you can fasten it properly!....fancy re-enactors pins aren't such a good idea for practicality. Try toggles or lacing to get the fit comfortable around the shoulders. The Romans considered the hooded British woollen cloak to be the best available (Birrus Britannicus) and paid high prices to obtain them.
I've slept in my arisaid (women's version of a great kilt) and provided you have a pile of leaf litter beneath you, there is no need for any other garment, it's warm, even when damp, breathable and comfortable.....besides, it snuggles two nicely
Actually, that's a very valid point,; sleeping alone is quite a modern phenomenon, shared body heat keeps everyone warm.

Cheers,
Toddy

 

[Phil562]

I apologise if what I'm going to say will upset somebody but, why rough it, when in todays world with modern materials/fabrics, use a sleeping bag that at the end of the day does not make a great deal of difference in the weight or size of the sack you carry.

Where I appreciate we all suffer financial constraints at some point in our lives, which may restrict us from this modern technology its still "not big or clever" to experiment roughing it, which may lead to you or somebody else being a casualty.

If you wish to experiment "grizzing it out " with a kilt then please take a doss bag just in case.

 

[Toddy]

Bushcraft, by it's very nature, is the art of making oneself comfortable within the natural environment, generally by using natural resources. Wrapping oneself in wool is by no means 'roughing it' but it does simplify kit, and I truly doubt that not lugging along a sleeping bag instead, is going to be a life threatening experiment.
Sleepily,
Toddy

 

[Phil562]

Toddy

I repeat my apology for upsetting anybody.

My thread was meant to make people aware. Even though I'm a new member of this excellant forum I have numerous years experience in the great outdoors.

I merely meant my thread to make people think before experimenting.

I appreciate your view that bushcraft is making one comfortable in a natural envoirement y using naural resources, however not all do not follow that credo, to some it is moving "outside the normal living envelope"

Regards

 

[leon-1]

Phil, I do know where you are coming from, some people may not be as familiar with the outdoors as others and to them a sleeping bag is an essential piece of safety equipment (I actually believe in this very much so).

However sleeping bags are basically a progression from older methods, the use of bed rolls (I used one in Namibia earlier this year and a very good piece of kit is too) for instance is a progression from basically a swag or even a blanket.

The major differences are, size, weight and efficiency, but with a good knowledge of what you have around you and what can be used to aid you in insulation does mean that there are numerous different methods of sleeping outside.

Although I carry a sleeping bag I don't always use one or need one, but it is very handy to have one when/if I do require one I think is probably what you were getting at

Oh and congratulations on getting the hammock on e-bay

 

[Phil562]

Leon

Thanks

Once I've tried out the hammock I'll let you know how it went

 

[arctic hobo]

I apologise if what I'm going to say will upset somebody but, why rough it, when in todays world with modern materials/fabrics, use a sleeping bag that at the end of the day does not make a great deal of difference in the weight or size of the sack you carry.

I'm going to have to stop you there. My old Nanok -25 used to take up nearly half my 80l pack, and more than a quarter of a sled. The -10 I use for Norwegian summer is not a huge amount smaller. The -25 weighed about 3k, and the -10 is 2k. This makes a great difference to pack size, although I will admit I am not worried about weight.

Where I appreciate we all suffer financial constraints at some point in our lives, which may restrict us from this modern technology its still "not big or clever" to experiment roughing it, which may lead to you or somebody else being a casualty.

You're right; it's not. But with the wide background we all have (I'm a backpacker, others are re-enactors, many are ex-forces who just still love the outdoors, etc), some of us will be very interested in different "solutions" to keep us warm. Sleeping bags are not the only one, although you do have the advantage that you can take legal action if the bag fails so miserably it does not conform to the small print (although I would argue that if you took Snugpak bags at face value you could easily kill yourself - especially with the new EU regulation - you can see my views here ).
But as Leon said, sleeping bags are just newer versions of bedrolls, or cloaks. It is sensible to sit and have a think about the garment you have just made/bought is safe to sleep in, but considering people around Europe at least used to use them, we are only returning to their way of life. I would not view it as "roughing it". I would view using a wool cloak a historic and perhaps more natural way of sleeping.
Not intended as an argument, more as a vehicle to air my views

 

[Toddy]

Toddy

I repeat my apology for upsetting anybody.

My thread was meant to make people aware. Even though I'm a new member of this excellant forum I have numerous years experience in the great outdoors.

I merely meant my thread to make people think before experimenting.

I appreciate your view that bushcraft is making one comfortable in a natural envoirement y using naural resources, however not all do not follow that credo, to some it is moving "outside the normal living envelope"

Regards

Neither offended or upset; this is a discussion and Arctic Hobo's last kind of says it all really
Cheers,
Toddy

 

[spamel]

Right, I phoned my folks last night, my brother and father have gone a bit nutty!! My brother has shelled out on a complete 101st airborne troopers kit from WWII, my dads shelled out for a full German kit from the same era!!!

God alone knows what they get upto around the house when my mum goes shopping, but my dad said he wanted to try this kit out over a weekend to see how they lived in it during the war. Of course, they won't be getting shot at or be living in Stalingrad in the winter with totally inadequate clothing, but the idea is there. They won't have dos bags because they weren't around then, or at least weren't on issue. They will take a blanket each, and that's it. Of course, both sides were often left with what they were carrying as their kit was left on a truck as they advanced to combat, so they sometimes didn't even have that luxury.

He mentioned this to my mum who said "You can't do that, you'll cause accidents on the motorway!" to which my dad replied "We won't be driving there in our kit!" Just imagine travelling down the M1 past Sheffield when you see a German Stormtrooper and a yankee GI driving past in a Ford Escort!!!

 

[Justin Time]

Phil
I'm another in favour of experimenting but in bite sized chunks. When I built an enclosed debris shelter I had to try it out without a sleeping bag... but I knew that, even in October, the worst I would have was a sleepless night.. but that taught me more about debris shelters and keeping warm than anything else... it's not just the depth of insulation but the size of the airspace, stuff like that.
I wouldn't advise anyone to try out a debris shelter on Rannoch Moor in October (not enough material?) but if we don't start to push the envelope how would we know what works?

 

[anthonyyy]

My brother has shelled out on a complete 101st airborne troopers kit from WWII, my dads shelled out for a full German kit from the same era!!!

They should both be shot for fraternising with the enemy

 

[Phil562]

Its good to see that this forum has "no skrinking violets". Thank you for your views. Whether I agree, well, this could lead to another debate.

I think the main point is that whatever we do "be safe and happy"

 

[Shepherd]

When out in the back of beyond i find a bed with sleeping bag a real moral booster and can sleep much better allowing me to recharge fully before the next day.

Perhaps i connect sleeping in my clothes to waking up drunk in strange places... That never seems to feel as good.